Today on How We Can Heal Podcast, Lisa Danylchuk discusses with Tricia Huffman how you can stop should-ing everything in life. For Tricia, everything she does in her work and coaching revolves around self-compassion and self-worth. So tune into the discussion as Tricia shares the story behind her title, the Joyologist, her views on grief, and what she has to impart to anyone having a hard time in life about joy and how you can claim it for yourself.
What Happiness is NOT
As you tune into Tricia’s life story, we get reminded that in life, when there is joy—there is also grief. Before becoming the joyologist that she is known to be today, Tricia also had her fair share of gloomy times and down moments in life. But as the joyologist, how does Tricia define what joy truly means for herself and for people in general? In the early parts of the episode, Tricia breaks down, first, what joy is not.
For Tricia, people are often wired to only acknowledge and accept joy after achieving something. That may be about personal life or career. So often, people will only allow themselves to be happy when they finish, gain, or change something. But because we’re also conditioned to always go for the next big thing, do we achieve that joy after reaching a certain milestone when we’re taught to always jump for the next stone as soon as we get to the one before it?
About Tricia Huffman:
Tricia Huffman is a podcast host, speaker, Manager of Integrity to Grammy Award-winning artists, and founder of Your Joyologist. While living out her first dream as a touring sound engineer, she saw that everyone, including the people we think “have it all,” often doesn’t feel fulfilled and fights doubts, worries, and compares themselves to others daily.
With her unique background and knowledge in self-care and wellness, she first created her Joyology to keep artists healthy, grounded, and inspired in body and mind while on tour. She now spreads her mission to claim joy daily via her empowering social media posts, real talk podcast, coaching work, product line, and Own Your Awesome daily inspiration app, and everything that she does.
She is based in Los Angeles, where she is raising her strong-willed, independent, creative daughters and F-ing the shoulds while claiming joy daily.
Outline of the episode:
- [02:25] Tricia Huffman – the dream career
- [06:05] A vow to emotions
- [12:21] Where the title joyologist came from
- [19:07] When do you plan to feel happy?
- [23:40] About the book F The Shoulds, Do The Wants
- [30:01] The issue on body image is just so f***ed up
- [35:54] Joy starts when you allow yourself to be free at the moment
- [42:29] When joy is hard…
- [51:41] What you learn from the movie Don’t Look Up!
- [59:03] Tricia Huffman’s favorite mantra
Resources:
Website: https://yourjoyologist.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/_triciahuffman/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/yourjoyologist
Subscribe to Tricia’s podcast, Claim It! with Tricia Huffman, Your Joyologist:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/claim-it-with-tricia-huffman-your-joyologist/id1462654663
F the Shoulds. Do the Wants: Get Clear on Who You Are, What You Want, and Why You Want It, Book by Tricia Huffman:
She is based in Los Angeles, where she is raising her strong-willed, independent, creative daughters and F-ing the shoulds while claiming joy daily.
You can learn more about Tricia and her work at triciahuffman.com, @_triciahuffman, yourjoyologist.com, and @yourjoyologist, and subscribe to her Claim It! Podcast.
Full Transcript:
All right, Trisha, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for being here.
Tricia Huffman 00:05
Thanks for having me.
Lisa Danylchuk 00:07
I'm super excited to talk to you because you are a Joyologist. Yes. And I feel like if I move on from being a therapist, that's probably the next profession I'd like to be. Or maybe I'll just start thinking of myself as a geologist while I'm doing therapy. But I feel like there's so much inspiration in that and we've been through really heavy times lately and I know people are like, I need something to look forward to. And I need some kind of joy or inspiration in my life. So I think this is perfect timing. So thank you for being here
Tricia Huffman 00:09
You're welcome Yeah,
Lisa Danylchuk 00:44
My first question is just how did you become a Joyologist Can you give us a little into what that journey was like for you?
Tricia Huffman 00:50
A short story long story. I'm not sure first of so, the a title was given to me. I'll have to tell some backstory on my life.
Lisa Danylchuk 01:02
Oh, please it can be the long version I love this the story of your life that led because it's never like I mean rarely I just woke up.
Tricia Huffman 01:10
Yeah, it's like it's hard for me to just like be like this because so many things were affected by different things. So my dream career was to be a live sound engineer to do so tour with bands doing their sound. And I did it, I made it happen. It was super hard work. And I loved it. It was
an amazing life. And my father passed away suddenly, when I was like, about to get on a plane to Australia. And I was like, shattered. But so what flew home for the funeral instead and then went to straight to Australia from the funeral. Like, I was like, no, I'm flying to Australia. And before that, I really bottled up my emotions. I guess I didn't realize it until I had to, like force myself to allow myself to cry at the funeral. Like at the very end when nobody was there. And so once it finally happened, I was like, from now on, you let emotion flow if emotion is present, you let it flow you don't have to question it. Just let it go. Because I guess I had you know, like, had these like no crying is wrong or weak or want to like these things inside of me, right? They were like, nope, you're good. Crap. Don't cry.
Lisa Danylchuk 02:24
It's such a strong pattern. I'm a therapist and I tell people this stuff all the time and try crying is great. Let's see emotion move. I can tell you like within the last month I was in therapy and I was like *sniffle* *sniffle* *sniffle*, and I have to and I have the like hold it back feeling. I'm like where is that? Like are you kidding me? I have two parents that are therapists. I'm a therapist myself. Why would I ever hold back crying but we do right?
Tricia Huffman 02:47
Yeah, it's a natural reaction. Um, but then I was like, no tears. So anyway, I had that sort of conversation myself, like after like, really like, that moment in the, you know, which I haven't thought about or talked to about in a while, like really letting it go. And like really like, being, oh, my gosh, I think I'll tell the whole story.
Lisa Danylchuk 03:11
Take us on the whole journey because that's how we really get to know.
Tricia Huffman 03:13
Like I said, I was like, I was like, okay, to operate operation mode, funeral this, okay, we got to do this, that I was like, sitting in the front. I was like, okay, I'm gonna talk about my dad's funeral. Of course, my sister was too, like no, and his brother wanted to talk. And so I was like, I'm definitely going to talk. And then, you know, the priest or whoever was doing the thing was like, okay, and that was out in a talk. And I stood up and I started to cry for the first time. And, and my family around me was even like, oh, it's okay. Just sit, it's okay. You know, like, we know, you're like, whatever. And I was like, No, I'm going to talk. And I allowed myself to like sob and gave my speech, whatever. But again, like bottled up and then after the funeral, I was like, frozen, could not move people came up to say goodbye to me and like my friends and I could not stand up. So everybody was like, up and I'm still there. And I knew I had to cry, but I wouldn't like let myself and I finally was again like, you're at your funeral or your father's funeral. Trisha, like it is okay to cry, you're allowed to cry like I knew it was in there. And I let it out and was like the gnarliest like a lion is dying.
Lisa Danylchuk 04:19
Yeah, it's big.
Tricia Huffman 04:21
And then I was even like, I really feel like I want to like get down on my hands and knees. He was cremated and we thought it was ridiculous to buy a coffin for that. So it was just like a big picture there, which I thought was good. So anyway, like, I felt like I wanted to, like crawl on the ground and I did it and it was like, and again, like family would come in and sort of like let's come on, let's remove you and I was like, No.
Lisa Danylchuk 04:43
I'm feeling this I need. Where else am I going to do this? Like, do you want me to do this in the therapists office a year from now? Like let me do it now.
Tricia Huffman 04:49
Yeah. And so. So again, like it was like, so like, in many ways, like embarrassing, but I was just like, no, I'm not like, I'm owning this and I'm owning my feelings. And so I had made this commitment to myself to never, like, stop the tears. So again, I flew to Australia, I luckily at the time had these huge gigantic black sunglasses lucked out, because I was sobbing constantly on that tour. I was so happy to be there. And they were like my family. And it was like the perfect people to be with. But I was a mess. And I and I was just to be on tour the entire like, year and like for this album cycle, and I just kept feeling like, I know, I like I can't do this anymore. I was just like, the fact that my dad dying suddenly, and then also suddenly snapped me into. I was miserable because I had just lost my father. And it was like shocking. But every like, it looked like everywhere I went, everyone was miserable. And I did realize I don't know what's going on with these people and what's happening in my life. But I also was like, you don't know what can happen to you. My dad slipped and hit his head, got a concussion and died of hypothermia. Yeah. So like you really don't know what could happen. It's bananas, and so I think like the
details of his death, which we didn't even know. It took like weeks to get the autopsy. It was just your father has been found dead with a head injury. So for like, months, what happened? But I was just like, Yeah, I don't know what happened. And so I just was like, so present to people all around the world that just looks miserable in their lives. And I just had this inside. Like, I just want to shake people up and be like, what are you doing? Like, this is your life, you don't know what can happen? Like, why are you so miserable? Like, what can you do? And like, can you make a different choice or change, like what's happening with you? I was like, so pissed off. And I just knew as much as I love my career, there's something in telling me that like, I have to like stop and I have to go away. So I ended up quitting my life. I didn't even have a place to live because I toured most of the time and like traveling on my own. I didn't have money saved up because you would tour that have time off. And I would just go do whatever I wanted to do and live my life. Like it was an amazing life. And I was just like, I don't know what to do. And so I said, like, I'm, I'm giving up my job, like, you know, we will find somebody to fill in for me, you know, so I'll stay on for the next week or something. And I was like, I'm never doing sound again, I could have just said, I'm grieving. I need some time off. Like maybe I'll join you for the summer leg. I said I'm never doing sound again. And I gave up my job. And I'm just realizing that this is the question about the Joyologist. I'll just what happened was I spent a year grieving healing, doing all sorts of like, how can I help people as for me, but it really was a lot of just me, like grieving, and letting myself like, be myself. And even though I thought I had been myself for my entire life.
Lisa Danylchuk 07:59
Right, you were doing this thing that you loved like you had succeeded you were living the life.
Tricia Huffman 08:02
Yeah, and I like fought for it, there are very few women doing it. What happened was, I decided what was easiest for me was to take this thing that I wanted to do to change people's lives back to the world I knew. So I created a new role for myself on tour to take care of artists. And during that time, I had gotten certified as a yoga instructor. I started like doing like raw cooking and like, you know, like really different things like with that year off. And so I was like, I'm gonna take this back on the tour, because I know how hard it is to be on tour and these people who have it at all, I thought I was living my biggest dream, they really are living their biggest dreams. They're saying their own songs around the world have private jets have, you know, even had loving supportive family and partners. Like it wasn't even like, oh, man, their lives are really toxic. Of course, they're miserable. So even the people that really like had it all. Still a lot of days, you know, didn't look happy. Were you know, like in doubts and fears were like overworked but didn't know how to say no to people, like so many things. And so I was nobody, nobody like talks. Everybody's like walking around on tiptoes you know, with the person in charge forever, whether they're a huge artists or like the boss, right? Like people are rarely like, hey, what's your deal? Can we talk about this? You know, so I made up this job, and I didn't have a title for it. And I didn't know how I was going to get out on the road doing this. And so the same artist who I had been working for his production manager who I'd worked with for years as a sound engineer, was like we really miss you out on the road. We know that you said you're never going to do sound again. We need a production assistant on this tour. Would you be open to doing that? Because it was sort of like they were asking me like would you want to just be a production assistant, which production assistant is a such valued position. But like
yeah, it was kind of a step down for being the monitor engineer responsible for what the artists heard. And I said yes, but this is what I'm going to do. I've created this new role for myself on tour. So I'm going to come out as a production assistant, I will do all those duties, but I'm gonna also start doing these other things. And with the hopes that it turns into a full time position and you'll hire another production assistant and he sort of rolled his eyes at me was like, okay, sure, because also, they knew me. As a sound engineer, I toured with a juicer. I had gluten free meals because I have fibromyalgia. I've special rider. I would do yoga off the bus. Like, I was myself that whole time as the Rock and Roll sound engineer. So like, okay, sure, Trisha, whatever, like awesome, we're excited have you on the road. Within a week of being on tour Jason Mraz was like I don't know what Trisha is doingut I want her to do that full time. And said person who had hired me for that was like okay, so Trisha is the Joyologist and that is where the title came from. Like my short story?
Lisa Danylchuk 11:09
Oh, I love that. I love it. But there is so much backstory to it, right? Because you have to go through, and this has been a theme on the show for sure is like, this isn't about let's just think positive. And I was just talking to my mom about this the other night and she's a psychologist, she's like positive thinking was never about just pretend like hard things aren't there, it was about let me look at them. Let me like, bring it front and center. And sometimes we need time to do that. Sometimes we need a little space to do that, but actually looking at what's real. And then finding the way through, right. And that's what I hear you doing is like, oh shit, I lost my dad, he fell and got ahead injured this random. Like, of all the anxieties and fears and things that we're afraid of. And all the ways we might worry about what might happen. I doubt that you you know growing up or like, I'm really afraid that this is going to happen to my dad ever, right? And I think that's always one sidebar. Interesting thing about anxiety is we have all these fears. And it's like, not the ones that we think of that end up happening most of the time. But you have this experience and then you look at it, right? And you go, okay, well, what am I going to do from here? And then the other piece that I love is you you sort of trusted this unknown what's next? Okay, well, let me do yoga training. And let me keep doing. Let me keep being me and let me see how the me that the sound engineer can fit into this world of health and wellness and bringing joy and sustainability and in some level of contentment, because it's just, it's so crazy to hear. I think we all project we see people out there in the limelight or at the Grammys, or, you know, getting these awards and having, you know, albums and videos and we just think wow, they're done. They finished. Like they're just happy check. Right? And they might be really grateful, but they still have hard days and they still have the worries and the doubts and the fears and and people need people we need someone we can't just figure that out on our own. We have to have a culture and people around us who are gonna go hey, how are you doing today? Like let's talk through this or let's think about how you're thinking and why that might be the case and what we can do about it. Yeah, and right, and people who are in these larger positions, I think, especially in entertainment, it's not my world, but like, I can see how those people then people just withdraw and walk on eggshells. They're not like oh, I don't want to I don't want to mess with the talents like the talents already messed with. You gotta you gotta have a conversation to unmask, right? Or to work through whatever that truth is. And people sort of withdraw or avoid or walk on eggshells and tiptoe and that doesn't really do much a to support the person or beat or resolve the situation and get the whole the whole group the whole culture back and rhythm.
Tricia Huffman 13:31
Yeah, and also like, Hey, you're really acting like a jerk lately? Would you like to talk about what's going on? Everybody's walking around? Like, I don't know someone's in a bad mood and then everybody's off. So yeah, so the title stuck is Joyologist and, and then, you know, I toured with artists doing you know, that rule? And then it was like, oh, I was running Twitter account, like and things like that. So it just sort of happened. Like, oh, people like, oh, what I'm saying or this thing, then yeah, I'll lead an online workshop. What is that like? You know, like people do that. And that was like, in 2010 or 20. You know, like, so like, yeah, a long time ago. I was like, Oh, what are these people just sort of doing like that. So it just sort of naturally progressed into different things. And my myself always struggled with the title Joyologist, and I still can sometimes be like that because I make up that when people hear Joyologist they think of like hippie fairy flying around and like only positive and so that I often have thought like, oh, do I, you know, not used Joyologist just anymore? Even like on my book because for so long I didn't use my name I just last year like started using my name as like my social media and stuff because I had a book coming out but I was like, oh, I'll put Your Joyologist just on the book title too because people only might know me as that. But I'm like, oh, now I'm using my name need do I need that or people can be like to Your Joyologist. What's that? Like, again? I'm afraid people think it means too happy like this. But really it is like the whole thing from like, that moment of my dad dying and like we don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. And like hard bad things are happening. I'm living through a lot of grief right now. But like, yeah, like but we can claim some joy every day that we are worthy of that even when like going through hard times or even when looks like the world is so messed up. Like how can how can it's not like how can I see the good in that? How can I see the good and the shitty. Am allowed to cuss?
Lisa Danylchuk 16:10
Bring the F bomb. It's in the title of your book isn't it? Let's just say it. Bring the F bomb. It's in the title of your book isn't it? Let's just say it.
Tricia Huffman 16:22
I've been holding myself back so far and I'm like oh no. How can I find the good in the shitty thing that's happening to me or that's happening in the world but like wow, that shitty thing is happening. But also like how can I like make space for myself to experience some joy? And if that feels too far away well how can I at least nurture myself in this time?
Lisa Danylchuk 16:39
Yes and know that it's possible what I love about the Joyologist is there's that like I think of the sort of MC mixologist and how you're like mixing things together. There's this like kind of sciency sound to it. like we're gonna bring we're gonna bring some parts together and figure this out and so it's yeah, I can see how you would think oh well maybe people think I'm just focusing on on the positive but that's definitely not the case right your whole journey leading up to this is let me experience this grief this sadness let me crawl on the ground at my dad's funeral and feel this and feel the impact and not numb or avoid or drown it out but feel the impact of holy shit I have this one life to live we all have this one life to live and and who knows what's on the other side of that but I'm gonna get to that business of living.
Tricia Huffman 17:31
T
Yeah, and also in that is, I find that sometimes people are so like, looking like forward like we're working on some goal, right? Which it's amazing to have goals and projects like I have a book coming out that I've been working on for years. And it's like, it's so great to be like making that progress in that but so often I feel we're wired to be like, I'll feel enough happy, fulfilled successful when my book is out. When I have that dream job. When this project is complete. And so we are delaying our feelings of joy. Of fulfillment. Of success. or being enough. Until, once this is done. But usually not we like don't settle on it. It's just like then okay, well now what's the next thing and so that's to like, how can you like enjoy your life in the now while still working on those things that you're working on? Whether it's healing drama, or you know, like writing a book or becoming this dream job you have or whatever it is. Like also enjoy your current life. So how can you claim some joy? You're enough and worthy and successful right now as you are even though you haven't accomplished those things.
Lisa Danylchuk 18:48
You know Kris Carr and I were talking about this in terms of like being in any way or like Type A oriented. Where you want to like check things off and get things done. And I think our, at least American culture, is really, has an emphasis in that direction. And it does us a disservice because we're always waiting for an endpoint when things are all resolved. And that's just not life. Right? And we'll sort of attach it to external things. And I catch myself doing this still where you attach it to some external thing when that thing happens then I'll feel fulfilled, rather than it being this journey and this unfolding of, and I don't even want to say chasing the joy, but like feeling into what feels good to me now. What's inspiring me now? What has energy? What has life? Because those are the things like that's the juice of it, right? I used to run. I haven't since COVID really much but used to run ultra marathons and people would be like, oh, that's crazy. That's intense. That's so hard. And I'm like, I just love spending time outside all day. And honestly, I love the trajectory from I just signed up for this really long race. Oh my God, I don't know if I can do it to the inspiration that comes. Okay, I'm gonna go running this weekend. Okay, I'm gonna go out with some friends. Okay, I'm gonna try to keep up here. Okay, I'm gonna take it slow over there. And then it's almost like the the, the event doesn't matter so much. Right? Like, and I would show up and I think I have a different mentality than, than a lot of people do in in that because it is still for a lot of people will race and they're going for a time and I never really felt that way. But I would just show up at the start line like, this really cool. Wow, maybe I can do this. Maybe I won't. Maybe I'll bop out at mile 48. And be sad about it. But like, even that would be longer than I run before today. So cool. You know, and I just show up and be like, okay, let's, let's explore this new thing. And I've never been on these trails before. And I think, when we have that experience, like for me, I remember being on the trails and like singing, like singing Sara Bareilles songs. People being like, who's this girl singing stuff and like, you know, people would think like, oh, you're, you're just like this Pollyanna. Like, you're not serious about it. But I had so much fun and enjoyed it so much. And I would see people suffering like, oh, I sprained my knee, but I'm going to finish and I'm like, why? Really?Why? We could sit down and have a conversation, but I'm not working right now. So I'm gonna let the people at the aid station be your counselor. And I'm gonna keep going because I'm on the weekend and I need some, I need some nature. So it's just really interesting
Tricia Huffman 21:19
You're like flipping people your business card.
Lisa Danylchuk 21:21
I'm like, no, not right now. I know, right? I could just like advertise that be in swag bag like know that you didn't race? Give me a call? Yeah, but I think we do have this way of, you know, our minds we know are oriented to problems. We want to be able to predict them. We want to be able to solve them. We want to be able to solve them before they happen. It's great to be in a preventative state or angle. But so much of the time we're preventing. We're creating problems in our head or we're problem solving things that never happen and so it sounds like part of what you do is really help people work with their mindset or work with the way they're relating to themselves in their lives. Like what are some common themes that come up when you're when you're coaching people?
Tricia Huffman 22:11
I feel like so much is related to self worth. And people just not allowing themselves to be who they are. And, and you know, and I feel like most of that is related to the shoulds, which is what my first book is after the shoulds do the wants. And that is, by the way, when my father passed away. Oh, go ahead.
Lisa Danylchuk 22:41
I was gonna say you can say it. Fuck the shoulds. Do the wants. You can say it.
Tricia Huffman 22:45
I left fuck off the title. I made a half to make it a little more... okay, this out in the world, like, you know, I'm hoping to see it on Target and Cabs. We'll see. Like, you know, just a little bit more gradual. But yes, the original mantra for my product line and it was Fuck This Shit. But so, you know, back in Australia when I'm like lost from my dad dying and I in just like knowing I needed to stop and I didn't know. At some point too this like, message got implanted in my head, like you're done with the shoulds. And I was like, I don't understand it. I've never lived. I don't live a life of shoulds. Like I've done things my own way, like my whole life. So I don't know what you're talking about. But I just had this like thing within that I was like, no more shoulds. And I decided to stick to that so much that I would not let myself use the word. So I'm back in California, and I don't know what I'm gonna do with my life. I just quit my dream job. And I was actually super scared. Maybe that was a bad idea. I don't know. But then it was like, some part of me knew that it was done because you said forever. And you could have said I'll be back in a couple of weeks. And so I wouldn't let the word come out of my mouth. And it was shocking to me how much I naturally wanted to use the word that it was just by default. Hey, what should we do today? What should I eat? Should I go to the farmers market today? Hmm, should I do yoga? 10 are new, like all of these things that seem pretty like yeah, who cares that like that's like, that's not a big deal. But I was so committed that I wouldn't let myself use the word should but so I would be like what should... Even in conversation like I was so committed. And so I
would be like, What do I say? I don't understand. And I tried some different things on and what I ended up being my natural default was want in that shifted everything so much because I was immediately then actually coming back to myself and pausing to consider myself and it started to be this like natural wake up that I became so mindful of what I was saying. What I was thinking, and then therefore what I was believing about myself from just the shoulds because it came up so much. And so now this was like, you know, that was 2008. This should still come up for me daily. And I don't even use a word, but it's just the feeling, because it's, like, so ingrained in us that we are looking outside of ourselves for the answers. And that's okay, like, I love to research, I love to get advice. I love to get feedback. But seeing like, oh, and what about me? What is my opinion? What feels best for me? Right now, in this moment? Not, well, I should do that, because that was a dream of mine, or, you know, so that's to that sometimes it's like we're shoulding on ourselves, because it's like, even, you know, another past version of ourselves, said that we are, you know, wanted that or something. So I was able to get clear in the moment of what do I want? And then even question like, well why do I feel like I want to do that? And so for me, this is like, I don't you might be like, are you actually answering my question of what people struggle with, but so much, I do feel like when people should all over themselves. And by tuning into that, I'm constantly getting clear with myself. That's the subtitle on the book is Get Clear On Who You Are, What You Want, and Why You Want It. And this isn't like some big dream want, like, sure this book will help you figure out like your dream want life. But this is a moment to moment thing. Who you are in a moment. What do you want in this moment? Why do you want it in this moment? Like, why are you feeling that way? And so often, I'm covering up my own feelings of not being enough. As much self love work, I've done self worth work. You know, like, I also almost ended my life when I was 15. And I lived my life a different way from that point on, which is another reason that I was like, I should like, no, like, I told my parents to eff off when I was 15. And I was doing in my life because I could see they weren't happy. So why would I listen to them and do things their way? Like at 15 too I had this awakening of like, so many people are miserable. So I'm just going to do what I want. So that's why when I noticed the should thing I was like, I don't understand why I'm telling myself no shoulds like it's me I'm talking to.
Lisa Danylchuk 27:27
Another layer, right? It's like okay you claim that 15 and then years later you reclaim it.
Tricia Huffman 27:29
But it just in this one thing like gives me this daily awareness because again, you know. You've done so much work. It's like it's not gonna go away. We wonder you magically figure it all out. And you never struggle with not feeling enough ever again. You never have a doubt you never have a fear. You never feel shame. You have done all the work. Congratulations. Welcome to like enlightenment or wholeness or whatever. No, it's a moment to moment glimpse. And so that like so it gives me this constant looking at. Oh, hey, this is me telling myself I'm not enough again. Oh, this is me in comparison mode again. Oh, and so. So yeah, so a lot of my clients, I feel like no matter what it is, there's always self worth. And you know, it's because we're often projecting ourselves into what we should be doing. What other people think we should do. Body image is such an effed up thing, right? Like I'm still like, every day I'm just like,
I can't wait for the day that my default is not telling my body. No, no, that doesn't look flattering enough so you can't wear that. Who cares? I love it. But like, I love it mind. Like I have to like tell myself to eff off constantly because I'm so set up to judge myself.
Lisa Danylchuk 28:49
Yeah, I think about like looking at it and if you've ever had this experience of looking at a picture of yourself and feeling immediately critical of it, I think a lot of people have that experience. And it's so interesting that over years, and at least it goes in this direction. But I've noticed like, I'll see pictures of myself in high school when I was so you know, worried about what I look like where I'd, oh, I don't like this. I don't like that. And you know, your parents or whoever your friends are like, you look great. And you're like, You're lying. You're lying because you love me. And then years later you go back and you're like, what was I trippin off? Like, what? What did I even see? I can't even see it now. Like what? And that's that sort of dysmorphia, right, where we don't even see ourselves clearly. And so with the shoulds and with the self worth, it's like, can we actually even start to see ourselves with, with positive regard, with worth, with love, with care. Without this lens of criticism and without this lens of external shoulds. I mean, you think you'd talk about body image which makes me think of food, which is such a big thing in the health and wellness culture and like how much we should on ourselves around food and around what to eat and I think about it, you know, stories I've heard. Some journalists who wrote about this in a really funny way, but like, I think there was like a poem or something it was called, I should have ordered the Scampi. Where like somebody was like, oh, I think he's talking about his wife. He's like, my wife's life story is going to be entitled, I Should Have Ordered The Scampi. Where it's just like you're like on on the menu. Like I should have this or I should have that rather than just like, what stands out? What do I want? Done. Moving on. Like that's lunch. So we can get in our heads so much about what we look like or how we're perceived or what we should do. And those trajectories can really take us away from who I am. What I want. And sometimes I think why I want it and other times like doesn't matter. This is who I am. This is what I want, right? Like doesn't need an explanation. For the bigger things, I think why I wanted is really compelling but if you just want lasagna for lunch like that's enough. Right?
Tricia Huffman 30:53
Yeah, totally. And there are parts when I'm like working through different things. And I'm like, if you don't know the why, please don't get stuck on it. Like, ask the why. Like, yeah, sometimes you can go into Tailspin like, I don't know? What is the why? Because you want it. Because it brings you joy. Like whatever.
Lisa Danylchuk 31:14
So, how would you say like, what kind of healing are people looking for then? Would you call it just healing around self-worth or do you feel like there's a common core wound people are working with does that apply here?
Tricia Huffman 33:54
I mean, yeah, I think there's, you know, the self-worth struggle for sure. And people just being able to, like, own who they are and own their own choices. Like, that's the thing too. We're so most people again, like I'm used to people. Sort of like shrugging me off when I would talk about the shoulds because I've been talking about this for over 10 years, even though I just now have a book. Now look, I wrote an entire book about how bad it messes you up. People will you listen to me? But like that we are so like, murky about how we actually feel and what we actually think and believe about ourselves, because of all the shoulds that are constantly coming at us. So it's like giving them space to like, actually, like dig in and accept themselves and even look at considering what their wants are for the first time in their life. Because so often, too, especially women can be this defaulted of what's expected of me or like, you know, wanting to take care of others in like, what is that? And then yeah, I mean, too definitely with the Joyologist just there is like, like, yeah, just enjoying your life. It's like this very simple thing. Right? Like, hi, can you try to enjoy your life more today? Like the simplest method, small, but it's like, people really struggle to actually enjoy your life. And in the book, I, you know, and I think even in, you know, about, like, the book sales page, or whatever, you know, it's like, to live your most alive and aligned life. Like, that's what the point of the book is. And when I had when I hired an amazing team to do the book landing page, and they were like, I was sending them copy, they're like, can we change this to like, you know, when you read the, like, you'll, you know, get your dream life or something? And I said, no, absolutely not. I am not going to sell this book. Because people think they're going to read it and get their dream life. Like that is not the point. The entire book I am being straight up real. These are things you're going to have to struggle with your entire life. And in each moment, you're going to be cutting clear with yourself, you know, because it does, it brings you back to like, the truth, the now, so that you can be aligned with yourself and alive present in your life, that doesn't mean you're gonna feel joy in every moment of the day.
Lisa Danylchuk 33:57
So how do you define joy or a joyful life? Like how would people I mean, I don't want to be in the mindset of like, how do you know you got there? But how would you describe that to someone who maybe is in this place of really suffering or feeling a lot of fear and doubt and insecurity all the time and feeling stuck in it and wanting like if you're coaching someone out on tour or elsewhere, how would you define joy to them?
Tricia Huffman 33:58
That's a great question, and it seems like it would have a very simple answer. You know, you know, immediately when when I think of joy, I think of bliss, which is not necessarily like great, so it feels like bliss, but it also feels like you're just so present. You're in the moment. It's like imagining like when a song comes on, and you just start singing it out loud and you don't even realize it or your dancing. You know, like, when you're letting yourself like be free and be in something and that's so that's the thing. So like, 30 seconds of you being in like that song or whatever like, is impactful to your life. And I think again, that that's the thing people think, Oh, if I'm trying to be joyful or Have a joyful life then it goes to projecting this image of you are in this like joyous high floating above life state at all times and that so often in life we do hold ourselves back because we make everything seem too big and too hard and so even experiencing joy it can feel so outside of us where it's like put on a song you like and just allow yourself to be in it?
Lisa Danylchuk 35:27
Yeah, it stands out to me as you're talking, I'm thinking about people on tour who have achieved this dream you were talking about put on a song and music and you know, people who are performing at that level, they love music, like I'm thinking about Sara Bareilles. This is just how I found out about you and, and Jason Mraz, who you mentioned earlier, who have this beautiful, inspiring music. And it's, I think, their soul's calling to be a musician. And then they can do that thing and be out on stage and be appreciated and celebrated and still. Right? And still, that doesn't necessarily scratch the itch, or make them feel whole and complete, or joyous all the time. And so I think that's a huge learning for all of us just to know, a lot of this is just being a human being, like, you're gonna have different feelings, you're never going to be in this state of bliss. And even for that person who's getting off the stage and feeling a certain kind of way, or, you know, when you do what you love for our business. There's these other layers to it. It can get more complicated. So even for that person, well, how does it make a difference? If they're if your dressing room is arranged differently? How does it make a difference if you're saying a certain thing to yourself, and I know that was some of the things that you did, right? Was like to support people in feeling a connection to their own sense of joy, right? Maybe it's you just really love yellow tulips and you come in and those are in your room, and that sets the tone in a different way. Or maybe it's connecting with someone you love before or after you go out? I don't know, but it seems like there are these really seemingly small things that we think of the big things. We think oh, I'm when I'm a Grammy Award winning artist, that's when I'll feel bliss all the time. And a lot of people even Olympians talk about going out and like the crash after experiences like that like the dopamine crash or whatever it is. I achieved. I got the gold medal, and like, why do I feel like crap a few days later? So that's where I feel like these things are so essential because we can focus so much on the big accomplishments and and forget how important the mind. I want to say mindful, but like the moment to moment presence and the moment to moment choices are. Right? Like I'm gonna put on a song I love. I'm going to, you know stare at this flower I love. I'm going whatever to to connect with myself and to connect with what I'm really wanting and needing right now.
Tricia Huffman 37:54
It's like yeah, we put it in like I will be joyful once this happens, but it's like no like every day like what are the small things? I think it's great and I often in my group coaching programs and one on one like it's always that it's like. Yeah, you like get a document in your phone of like what are things that bring you joy to like remind you, it's like oh, this is my favorite song or I love doing this. It's you know like yeah walking outside and looking. What are things that can up your joy levels in on a daily basis and and also like, what things feel nurturing to me? Because sometimes there can be an overlap and sometimes it's different because again, I'm not like yeah, if you're having a really hard time and sad time, you might want to go to one of those joyful things. Oh, like listening to comedy. I love things that make me laugh. I forget all the time. I used to listen to like Pandora comedy stations all the time. Now, I always forget those exists. I'm like what? I love funny things looks I forgot, you know, like just oh a minute of laughing, like oh, right. You're right. It doesn't change or take the things away. It just like gives you this sort of like, oh, other feelings are possible. But sometimes you can't. You're not going to go to that laughy thing. Well, what nurtures me? Oh, maybe it's you know, this favorite tea? Maybe? And I also again, I think there's so much shame in like, food being something that brings you joy and nurture you because of all of the unfortunate like diet, culture and even
wellness like purity. Where it's like, I don't think there's shame and like, oh, I'm let me go buy my favorite chocolate because I'm having a bad day, but instead of feeling like I shouldn't be eating this or I shouldn't have eaten that or that was the wrong wellness thing to do, be like, I love myself so much. I went and bought myself my favorite chocolate and I am savoring it. So
that you I feel like the feelings we have around things are more toxic than the thing itself. I mean, I think the biggest thing is to allow yourself to feel your feelings and to like, know that grief is universal, yet different for all of us. I also think it's really unpredictable. Like you can think you've gotten through this or I guess I'm not, you know, it's like you're not shooting yourself on how you're grieving. Oh, I should if this person did this, or this person quit her life do I have to do that too, or like to, to just like really, like loving and compassionate with yourself? I do think too, I think grief can be lonely. Even if you're grieving with your families, and then because we all do it one way and people I don't think we have enough grief resources. And even me who's gone through several types of grief. Well, everyone has, but even with my experiences of really owning it, I can still struggle myself with supporting people going through, you know, like, I'm wanting to be like, oh, how can I help you know. People try to be helpful and loving but to you it might not show it like they don't understand like that. So it's like trying to remember that people do love you and support you and they just don't they don't know how to process your grief or like you know, express it. Even me who's gone through it. I sometimes find myself like, oh, whoops, I did that let me know if you need anything thing and they're not going to know because they don't want it they can't reach out and ask them too much in their grief. Right? Just drop something off. People in your life don't understand that doesn't mean you like need to write them off first of all. Yeah, allowing yourself to grieve and also like allowing yourself to hold space for multiple emotions at once. Where I do know that sometimes people can be like, how dare I feel joy or you know, like, do something that serves me when this miserable thing just happened or this you know, like whatever it is that you're grieving that sometimes they don't even allow themselves to have any capacity for joy. Or they feel bad if they do something to nurture themselves. It's like feels as if you're like I need to be in punishing myself mode because I'm grieving and that like I just don't think that that's helpful at all.
Lisa Danylchuk 39:45
Yeah, and that happens a lot of times and a lot of ways and I think what you're speaking to with the nurturing is really important too, because you talked about grief. I've experienced grief. A lot of people out there are going through it right now post pandemic, and just in general, this is a real part of life that we don't talk about. I think we don't talk about enough in Western culture and we don't really have ways to include it in how we're thinking, while we're alive. We kind of like wait for death to come to have thoughts and experiences around it. But nurturing, and I think of it a lot in terms of caring. What do I need right now and how can I care for myself right? How can I care for this feeling? How can I care even for someone? I'm upset with or people in my life? So in those moments of okay, Joy feels far away it's my might not even feel like it really serves me right now because I'm kind of processing something. I'm moving through something reaching for what feels nurturing what feels supportive and going with that. I'm curious if there's anything else you would say to people who maybe really recently lost someone or who are feeling like Joy feels so far away? What's a micro step I can take in that direction or what are some practices you might recommend? It's occurring to me as you're talking to that owning, owning what you want is, is an important piece, I was thinking of a client I saw recently who was having a hard time and a friend reached out and said, is there anything I can do? And rather than sort of roll with, you know, how she would normally respond to that. She said, yes. If we had a normal, like a regular monthly friend date on the calendar that would really helped
me, right. And so sometimes, it's a matter of, you know, that whole let me know if you need anything person doesn't know what they need. And sometimes it's also like this permission or, you know, that word is permission from who. But like this embracing of expressing what we want, without, you know, sometimes saying why, and sometimes not like. It would be really helpful for us to have a friend date once a month. I would really love it if you would bring me my favorite lasagna. And I feel like sometimes, we just have these little blocks to that, like we're gonna seem entitled or we're gonna seem, I don't know, bossy, or whatever.
Tricia Huffman 44:14
They don't really care. They're just trying to be nice like.
Lisa Danylchuk 44:14
Yeah, yeah, they don't, they don't really want to do it, right. Or we can have all these mental kind of, like static in the way of just that connection of this person wants to help doesn't know what to do. Can you watch my kids for five minutes? I really need a nap. Whatever that thing is, and so sometimes I feel like there is that disconnect and grief or people are there and want to help don't know what to do. And and people don't know what they need, which is normal and grief and or don't want to or feel like it's okay, or socially acceptable to just be direct and say, Can you leave me alone for a week? Like I've gotten that text 10 I am today and I just don't you know, whatever it is right just to be able to be honest and still maintain the relationship I feel like we can kind of get tiptoeing around that
Tricia Huffman 45:56
right yeah ya know Yeah,
Lisa Danylchuk 46:52
and there's this disconnect like there's an opportunity for connection in there and then it, it can just fall from one side to the other or through that lens we can, it can end up feeling disconnected when there's a real desire, you know, oftentimes on both sides for there to be a point of connection. And I feel like, yeah, we need our alone time and all that too. But connection can be such a deep source of support and healing and, you know, feeling cared for. So, yeah, I feel like owning what it is that you want, can help even in those times. So you might not feel super joyful. Or you might just have little moments of reprieve through humor, or whatever it is. But there's still that element of connecting with who you are, how you are day to day moment to moment. And being really intentional and clear of what is the the next thing or action or, you know, behavior, whatever it is that that brings me brings me some sort of relief or joy or nurturing right and asking for that like taking steps in that direction being clear about it. Yeah, yeah, and I feel like so much of this is and I know you've practiced yoga like this mindful attention of the present moment, right? Like, oh, this is what's happening. This is how I feel. But But I know with yoga and mindfulness practices, they become a lifestyle, right? They sort of become this thing that's woven into your day, so that you can actually connect with what you appreciate and what, what brings you joy when it's happening. Like I just noticed, it's
spring out here right now. And there's these beautiful cherry blossoms and there's like, the light penguin next to the bright pink one, and I just am driving or walking my dogs or whatever. And I look up and I'm just like, wow, five that is so amazing. How are we all not just stopping and staring at these two trees on a suburban sidewalk? And it's not, you know, dc in the spring or something where I think we do sort of travel from afar and go and see. But it's there and it's so beautiful. And I really feel that without some of these practices in my own life and without some of the similar work to what you're talking about maybe in a different angle. I don't know that, you know, we could be in that really busy mind and just walk right by it. And it's like, those are the things that I think you know, you give it the end of life test looking back, you're like, why didn't I appreciate those trees? Or I don't know what was that there was the movie about the comment hitting the earth did you watch that recently?
Tricia Huffman 50:18
I forgot to look up. It's called don't lookup. I didn't want to watch it.
Lisa Danylchuk 50:32
I didn't want to watch it for a number of reasons. I ended up watching it. But you know, what stuck with me about it was there's a line in there where I think Leonardo DiCaprio his character goes, we really had it all, didn't we?
Tricia Huffman 50:44
And I'm like, Yes, we do.
Lisa Danylchuk 50:46
There's so much. There's so much working and I remember even as a kid being like, it's so amazing how we have these green and red light systems and people follow them for the most part like that impressed me I remember growing up being like, wow, we've really worked it out. I mean, we can look at a whole bunch of other issues and know that we do not have it all figured out. But it really would impress me like we will agree on this pretty much and we we've worked with it and and that's that's actually pretty impressive. So like to have these moments where we are attuned at least in some way even to small things I mean that's a huge thing whether or not we stop at a green or red light but to look at what is working or to see the things that do bring you joy and to to kind of rent our minds from the drama that comes with fearful and intense and violent things which are very present we don't avoid them but we also don't want to get usurped by them we don't want to become entrenched so that we're not even aware of beautiful cherry blossoms on a sunny day or whatever it is that that for you brings you some of those feelings
Tricia Huffman 53:02
yep no. Now
Lisa Danylchuk 53:45
YEAH. There's such I think a valuable reorientation here of a foe focusing on you know, in, in my last book, the last chapter is about cultivating joy. And, you know, you kind of go from learning about trauma, facing it, looking at it, moving through it, processing the grittier, more challenging emotions, you know, finding moments of relief, and there. I think some people who've had really gnarly, you know, trauma, especially like complex developmental trauma as a kid or like, you know, people who are, like, exploited as children or have ritual abuse issues like this really gnarly stuff feel like I can never get there. Like, I'm not going to be happy or find joy, but this is such a different orientation to it. And, right, it's, it's not so much finding it, landing on it, getting it as cultivating it, right, like, I'm gonna have this daily practice of, and I think what's so beautiful about it is so many of those people have been harmed, like really seriously harmed by other people. And a lot of the art that I see is like this, harshness coming in, but, but it almost to me looks like this, the practices you're describing would look like gardening that right? We use that analogy a lot with mindfulness, you're gardening your mind, but you're gardening like your body and your soul. And you're like, Okay, what do you need over here and Okay, so you're, you're sad and you want your favorite chocolate part. Okay, and let's put this over here. And let's nurture this over there. And all you need some water. Okay, so it's, you know, a lot of the way that I think about things is through neglect and harm and care, and the neglect and the harm do have a really serious impact. And what's the flip of that? Right? It's that we care for ourselves and I just hear so much. No, self-care is a word that's used so much, but there's so much care for ourselves in the way that you're describing this and so many different pathways and angles. And also so many important questions right, let me ask myself, What do I want right now what do I need right now and instead of you know, pulling a should from the way you grew up, or the way someone else treated you or the way certain societal structures place you or you know something you saw that wasn't helpful you can pull it from from within right and from this place of real respect for yourself and you know, from there even care and love for yourself. I'm wondering if there's like a mantra you know, you've had like you know, cards and things and mantras that people use I wonder if there's one that stands out for you for people who are maybe facing trauma facing loss facing grief in the thick of hard things what something you might leave them with go
Tricia Huffman 58:13
yeah Yes. yeah yeah yeah yeah that's it. Yes Well, the question,
Lisa Danylchuk 1:00:09
the question was a mantra and I think that's a great one. What? What do I want to believe right now? And that actually leads me to something else I wanted to ask earlier. You know, a lot of people hear on this podcast and other places talk about with losing someone feeling like a spiritual experience. And I'm curious if you ever had any spiritual experiences, or if you because I feel like this conversation applies to that he was talking with Chris about her, she lost her dad on on February 11. Valentine's day was the day she got diagnosed with cancer, her dad would always come and check in on her and say, like, Hey, how's my valentine. And then to the first year, it's like, three days later, right? That she has this big anniversary day of the day, she got diagnosed with cancer, and she's looking for it, she's with her mom, and, and her dad's not
there, and they go for a walk on the beach, and they find three roses like sticking up in the sand, and that her dad used to always bring flowers for them for Valentine's Day. And so there's just this moment of, what do I want to what do I want? What do I need right now in terms of my own faith or spiritual beliefs, like I actually really want a need to believe that this is meaningful, and that this is a place where I can feel a connection with my father. And at least from her perspective, and you know, people have such varying degrees of experience with this all across the board but there's this element of finding a place to keep that connection alive, keep that love alive. And there there is a little leap of faith and like what do I want to believe versus what is the ultimate truth because as far as I know, I haven't found anyone who you know has the fully proven map of the universe and what happens when people die you know, and I'm happy to interview folks on the podcast you have that and contrast different opinions but there's no like resolute everyone agrees this is how it is so I'm just curious if if that applies for you if you've seen if you've seen those spiritual experiences for yourself or if the that wanting applies there or if you've coached people experiencing that type of stuff Yeah, did you Did you feel any connection with your dad after he passed or did it feel more of like this is more shifting towards me and my life now? Now Yeah,
Tricia Huffman 1:03:38
I have a lot of faith in that right huh oh wow wow right yeah well yeah that's really interesting. We're like love you stop it you frequently you don't have to do the
Lisa Danylchuk 1:06:20
monitor anymore. It's super creepy
Tricia Huffman 1:06:26
I love that.
Lisa Danylchuk 1:06:27
You know and I asked this question just because I feel like one theme that sort of emerging through this podcast is we're talking about healing which so we talk about painful moments talk about grief and loss we talk about also just these things that I think as a general culture, maybe we don't have the time or space or like are we feel like oh, maybe I'll be judged. So I'm not gonna bring this up. And you know, I just feel like it's important to put these things out there and we don't have to do it in a way where there's like, let's figure out whether or not that was your dad but let's just share with each other what our experiences are so we can know that we're not alone. Right and so that we can talk to each other and connect with each other around this and and just, you know, be okay with with some of the unknowns because I do feel like in this for myself and for a number of clients I've worked with where there are these really pivotal moments that feel so meaningful and and so powerful right to like speak to the empty room essentially by all accounts of our senses and then have something changed like there's a lot of power in that and and having a dream where you feel like a visit there's such a shift and and so much meaning and power in that too and so I just think it's important to bring those out
right and to be able to share that so thank you yeah, and I think there's acceptance and there's potential for connection there. You know, it doesn't have to it doesn't have to be a debate it can just be a sharing. So we got to wrap up in a second here and one more question What brings you hope Yeah. YES, No, I
Tricia Huffman 1:10:19
mean, but it does connect right? It goes like that posit, there's
Lisa Danylchuk 1:10:24
L
so much possibility in there. There's so much like, I can step outside, I can witness nature. And from there, I can learn that there are seasons for things. And I can accept that there are seasons for things and I feel this way today and I'll feel something else tomorrow or, or you know, I think about it with seasons a lot with again, like being in connected to the running community and to a lot of athletes where I see people almost like asserting when they have to take an offseason or their downtime, where I see this kind of pushback in the larger athletic culture of like, hey, Russ is important to like, we really need to rest. And I feel like that there is this culture of, you know, constant movement and constant effort and you've got to work towards especially when you talk about those big, you know, joys that you're chasing, well, you've got to just hustle and all this and, and, and nature doesn't do that. There's this quote, I always get on my tea bag, the little tea bag quotes I always get. Nature never hurries. And yet everything is accomplished. Like, thank you. Because I feel like we've you know, in this world where people have to assert rest is important. We're like, Yeah, there's a day and a night, there's a winter and a summer and sure there's some places there's just a rainy season and a dry season. But like there's there are these rhythms and there are these polarities and we sort of get duped into a narrative that we always need to be active or always need to be on or always need to be pushing and always need to be training right? It's like it's not when you lift the weight that you get stronger, it's when you lift it and then go lie down. Right and so that I think there is a lot of hope in looking to nature and you know, there's sort of some trust in that too. Right? You said acceptance there's acceptance and then there's some amount of like okay, these are these rhythms that I can I can ride through huh
Tricia Huffman 1:12:42
yeah
Lisa Danylchuk 1:12:49
yeah so where can people find you they want to learn more about your book and
Tricia Huffman 1:12:56
be in your world All right.
Lisa Danylchuk 1:13:04
And the same thing I have lucid dental check.com and how we can heal that calm and someone just asked me this connected I was like I mean you can go to either one but I really use how we can heal
Tricia Huffman 1:13:17
Oh, perfect. Order
Lisa Danylchuk 1:13:34
right now as we're recording, right, it's May
Tricia Huffman 1:13:38
2022.
Lisa Danylchuk 1:13:51
And so if we go to your launch party, do we get to call ourselves and geologists to be one like where's your certification program? You're like your certified go Oh really? I love it though. It's like the name was given to you and you just spread the love, right? Like let's, let's all be geologists. Well, thank you, Trisha. I love everything you do. I've been following you on social media since that day, cerebral has posted your stuff 510 However, many years ago, and I've always appreciated just the upliftment and I so appreciate learning more of your backstory and just feel that we all need some joy and we need to find it through life, not by avoiding life. So I really appreciate your message and I look forward to reading your book
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