Overview
What if the most powerful medicine starts with warmth, rhythm, and trust in your own body? Today we sit down down with licensed acupuncturist, Chinese herbalist, and yoga teacher Tara Tonini to trace how trauma-informed Chinese medicine can steady the nervous system, smooth cycles, and support conception, pregnancy, birth prep, and postpartum in a way that fits into real life. From liver qi and kidney jing to the heart-mind connection, Tara translates complex ideas into simple choices you can make today.
We dig into why many people are “acu-curious” yet needle-averse, and how energy work, qigong, and gentle touch can move qi without needles. Tara breaks down yin and yang as a practical parenting tool—intensity peaks, ease returns—and shows how seasonal eating, warm foods, and cozy rituals rebuild blood, improve sleep, and calm anxiety. She shares why chronic heat practices can dry you out, how cold plunges may impact kidney qi, and how warmth is medicine for conception and early postpartum recovery. You’ll hear concrete tips like herbal foot soaks for insomnia, body tapping along meridians to relieve pain, and using familiar yoga postures as targeted meridian stretches for better flow.
We also explore postpartum care through the lens of “sitting the moon,” with nourishing herbs, digestible meals, and home scents that signal safety. Tara’s trauma-informed clinical approach centers consent, pacing, and patient agency. If you’re navigating fertility, preparing for birth, or rebuilding after, this conversation offers grounded tools and a kinder way to meet your body where it is.
If this resonates, follow and share the episode, leave a review on your favorite app, and tell us the practice you’ll try today. Your story might spark someone else’s healing.
Chapters
Meet Tara: From Fashion To Medicine
First Encounters With Chinese Medicine
Energy Work Versus Needles
Who Tara Serves: Conception To Birth
Trusting Body Wisdom And Balance
Yin Yang In Parenting Realities
Liver, Kidney, And Everyday Patterns
Seasonal Eating And Modern Life
Cold, Heat, And Postpartum Care
Preparing For Conception
Postpartum: Sitting The Moon
Trauma, Heart-Mind, And Pericardium
A Simple Qigong Practice
Transcript
Welcome back to the How We Can Heal podcast. Today our guest is Tara Tonini. Tara is a licensed acupuncturist, Chinese herbalist, and registered yoga teacher specializing in women's health. She weaves together breath, movement, and medicine as tools for healing, guiding her clients through fertility, pregnancy, postpartum, and the countless transitions of modern life. She brings practices like acupuncture, Chinese herbal medicine, yoga, and qigong to her in-person healing sessions in Brooklyn, New York, and offers grounded, heart-centered support through her website, taratonini.com. I first met Tara over 10 years ago when she signed up for the very first online training program I offered in Yoga for Trauma Recovery. In today's conversation, we'll explore how she integrates trauma-informed care with traditional Chinese medicine and how these tools can support well-being, particularly during the reproductive seasons of life. Tara is full of wisdom, heart, and humor, and I'm so happy to share our conversation with you here today. Please join me in welcoming Tara Tonini to the show.
Hello, Tara Tonini to the How We Can Health Podcast. I'm so happy to have you here. I've known you for a long, long time, and I know you have so much wisdom and brilliance to share. So I'm excited you're here.
Thank you, Lisa. Really excited to see you and be with you and the wonderful community that you're always engaging and cultivating.
So not everyone knows you as well as I do. I'm curious to frame your background a little bit. What sparked your interest in women's health, in healing, in yoga and medicine? How'd you get where you are today?
Not in a simple journey, but I think that I've always had a deep fascination with like Venusian culture and everything goddess-related and growing up in the country and being so intimately tied with nature has definitely made me who I am. And then my first degree and career was in the fashion industry, and that was actually the introduction to Chinese medicine. I've been telling this story a lot recently. Is it funny?
Well, I want to hear it. Yeah, I don't think I've heard this one.
All my patients say, You always say, Can I tell you a funny story?
Yes.
Yes, please. So yeah, I was working in the fashion industry and landed this amazing job that gave me a wonderful opportunity to travel all over. And that lended me to our office in Hong Kong. And we would frequently visit the factories in mainland China. And because I was about 70% travel back then, I was constantly getting sick from these long flights and different time zone changes. And the beautiful women in our Hong Kong office would always take me down the street and get me Chinese herbs and make me walk on this acupuncture stone foot garden at the very top of our office building. And I went to get all these cupping and treatments and Chinese foot baths, and I would instantly feel better. And interestingly, that was the immersion into traditional Chinese medicine and all that it has to offer.
I love that for so many reasons because you were in need of support, like very immediate. And then the people there are like, come come, sister, we have we have support for you. And then it helped, but you weren't looking for it, right? It kind of you and then that seed that planted a how long ago was that now? How many years? That was 2005. 20 years ago. You get this seed planted, and then here you are now with your degree in traditional Chinese medicine, with all this experience as a yoga teacher, a trauma-informed practitioner, a doula. I feel like you've had so many lifetimes in your careers, and we can understand fashion in terms of like cultivating beauty and cultivating health in that way. I know sometimes we see it through like other lenses too. How are we choosing our clothing and are we prioritizing looks over well-being? But everything else has been so deeply about energetic healing, right? And then even in that fashion work, there was that seed of energetic healing that got planted 20 years ago. I love it. So you shared that people come to you now. You did all this work to get certified to provide acupuncture. I mean, you've practiced all these clinical hours. You know how to do the thing, you can provide acupuncture. And it feels like people are coming to you more and more for the energetic healing side, even as you have this certification that you work so hard for. So talk about that. What are you noticing in folks? And what are you noticing as you go out on your own as a practitioner?
Yeah. I have this actual and really fascinating patient. She was coming to me in between the bridge of graduating school and studying for my boards and my license. And we were doing energy work, and she kept saying, I can't wait until you can really stick a needle in there. And then, of course, I get the license and I have all the tools, and I'm like, Okay, now we get the needles. And she's like, Yeah, I just decided this is my medicine. I don't need the needles.
I don't need the needles.
Yeah.
Yeah. And I think acupuncture is a form of energy medicine, but I think that a lot of people have a needle phobia that's actually pre-verbal. We go to our healthcare providers with our parents, our guardians, our caretakers that, you know, they love us, they support us, they keep us healthy and fed, and um, they tell us our shots aren't gonna hurt. And then we see this strange person who has a needle, and we get vaccinations, which, you know, serve their purpose absolutely in a medical model and you know, as a global health system, but they lied to us because it does hurt, it does hurt. And so I think that there's something in in the psyche that lends itself to needle phobia. And so, even though people are very acucurious, I think the needle phobia might stem from that memory as the the body memory, right? And so I find that a lot of people will say, like, I'm curious, I think that this medicine could really help my strange, rare, and peculiar thing, but I'm not sure how I feel about the needles. So that's kind of where things are in my practice right now.
I have so many thoughts about that. The first one being, I remember being 16 and someone saying, You're gonna get a shot and like leaving the doctor's office, like, nope, not an option. I was like, I don't want it. And no. And there's probably something empowering and helpful about that, because as an infant, you don't have that option, right? And I had an injury in college, a neck injury, whole story there, won't tell it here now, but was in so much pain and I did all the things, right? Like I was still doing the yoga that I could. It was pretty modified. I was doing like massage chiropractic PT. And I was just in pain. And I was like, I'm gonna try. As much as I've never been a needle person or liked it, I've always been like, no, I'm good. No, I'll skip it. I'm 16, I'll skip that pain shot. I'll just take the pain instead. I decided to try acupuncture. And I remember being at the Ash Health Center at UCLA, and I was like, I'll just keep my eyes closed. If I don't see it, it doesn't actually the acupuncture needles don't really hurt. Every once in a while, you get like a stingy one or a pinchy one like going in, but then they don't hurt when you're sitting there, right? So it's like I'm not gonna look and I'm just gonna get the acupuncture. And it helped so much, Tara. Like it was the only thing I would walk out of there, and my pain was gone. I remember I was like, the left side of my neck is hurt. So I got acupuncture on the left and I walked out and I was like, oh, I think the right hurts too, because now I really feel that, right? So the next time I was like both sides. And I would get like two, three days of pain relief. So I just kept going back slowly over time. I'd start to like peek and open my eyes, open one eye and be like, okay, all right, that's okay. So I had this like desensitization process and like comfort building through the relationship with my provider. She was very kind, very supportive and gentle through keeping my eyes closed, through just like coming around to it. So it's so interesting that you're noticing that in your practice as you're supporting people. Do you have a specific population you're working with? Is it pretty general or are you focused still on parenting, on pregnancy?
I tend to attract people who are either in the conception phase or are currently pregnant. And then because I'm so passionate about the birth process and yeah, it just like lights me up and fascinates me. So I think that that passion really attracts birthing people and they are care providers, which I wouldn't say my practice is solely birth prep, but I think it's a significant amount of my patient population right now.
And how would you describe the work you're doing for birth prep? What are some pillars in your mind of like this is what this baby needs, this is what this mama, this family needs. What are things that stand out that you're offering in terms of that support?
I think people come to Chinese medicine with what I call the strange, the rare, and the peculiar. So it's like something that they know is not in balance or something that they can like deeply trust in their body is out of alignment. And maybe they go to a biomedical western model, and you know, rightfully so, they have all the imaging, they have all the blood tests, they all have their hormonal checks, and everything's within that healthy range, but within them, they know something's off. And so many people come to me as like a last resort, or they like Google, what do I do when you know this test is showing negative? And oftentimes in that search, Chinese medicine will pop up. And so I would say that one thing I feel really passionate about telling my patients is to trust that innate wisdom of their body, and Chinese medicine speaks so truly to that because we're always looking for harmony between the exterior world and our internal environment because our bodies are simply a microcosm of what's going on around us. And so the goal is always to bring more harmony, more balance, more ease, and like we learn, and I've learned from you in trauma recovery, like a greater capacity for both the highs and the lows and the joys and the discomforts. And that's really what Chinese medicine has to offer.
I love that as I hear my daughter squealing in the background. Like it's the relationship between the external world and the internal world, right? And yeah, I feel like sometimes in health we can get, um, especially perhaps from an American perspective, we can get really rigid with like what that needs to look like. I need to have my continuous eight hours of sleep every night. I need to have these vegetables and this amount of protein and this, like every day. And I'm a fan of structure. And sometimes it's unrealistic in a way that like my experience at times is then it separates me from what's actually happening in reality because I have all these like goals and expectations that maybe at some times in life are possible to meet. But when your daughter's up from one to five, like you're not gonna get eight hours of continuous sleep. And I noticed this, I follow some really funny accounts on Instagram about this too, where when people have, especially one or two or three, a number of young children, that kind of theme of getting your needs met in the moment best you can and letting that be okay being really important. I'm wondering if there's anything specific from Chinese medicine that you would share with parents of young children, people who have physically pushed the baby out of their body and are healing and recovering from that in those first couple years, and are riding those waves of a whole new person in the household, new rhythms to figure out, trying desperately to take care of themselves, because we all know self-care is important and we all know if the parents aren't getting good care, then everything else falls apart. But like it can start to feel like pressure. Do you see that where people start to feel like, well, now I'm also not doing that right? Like I didn't eat enough protein yesterday, and I uh I just ate in the middle of the night because I was hungry and I wasn't supposed to do that, in quotes, right? I'm curious from the Chinese medicine model, what you see that helps to foster some support in that space that can feel chaotic, right, and unpredictable.
Yeah, I think just really going back to the basics of yen and yang theory. When I'm struggling, or if a patient is struggling, I like to think of that discomfort as yang. And yang will increase, increase, increase until it peaks, and then it has nothing to do but turn back into yen. And so it's like this interdependent, reciprocal nature that we learn from the natural world outside of us, but we're a little far removed from it because we're not living right in nature, at least most of us aren't. But I like to think of that symbol of yen and yang and how yang will not last forever, therefore, discomfort will not last forever. And then the opposite is true as well. And I think for me, at least, that's what helps me really hold on to those sacred, delicious, sweet moments and kind of bookmark them in my mind and my body because even the good stuff doesn't last forever.
It reminds me of I know you used to teach trauma-informed bar classes, you know, doing those like little super painful thigh squats and things and saying that, all right, this isn't gonna last forever. And I remember hearing you say something about that while I was pregnant, and I was like, look at Tara, she's teaching in this way that's trauma-informed, people still have options. It's also good birth prep, right, for contractions, like really feeling and knowing, okay, this young is gonna peak, and then there's gonna be a little yin valley. Unless you're in back labor, I learned, then you don't have the valley. That hurts.
Then yeah, or if you're on Pentosin. Sorry. Right. Right. Yeah, sorry, there are there are caveats here.
Are there any principles in Chinese medicine? So I studied for almost a year when I was in Bologna, Italy. So I have this very basic, very old, very Italian uh basis of Chinese medicine in my brain that I'm very grateful for. But I remember learning at that time about the impact of trauma on kidney, on liver. And I've always held that with me, like my back and my knees start hurting. I'm like, oh, okay, maybe I'm kidney deficient. I'm always asking my acupunctures. I would love a funny story too, but I'm always like, look at my tongue. Is it kidney yin deficiency? Is it liver qi stagnation? They're like, well, if you're alive in the world, you probably have liver chi stagnation. I'm like, okay. So what are some of the like normal everyday people things that are super common in Chinese medicine? And what can we do about that? And then I want to ask about the more specific trauma ones.
Yeah, so similar to what you were saying, um the meridian system also coincides with our internal organs. And so liver is very important, especially for biological females, because this is what's going to course the qi, which is like our life force energy, our vitality, the prana. It's going to course it. And when it's coursing freely, we are asymptomatic, especially in our menstrual cycles. But when the liver chi isn't coursing freely, we experience as menstruating people a lot of disharmony, or sometimes we could think of it as a pathology or dysfunction. So when a patient comes to me and they'll say, like, I have dysmenorrhea, painful periods, or I have amenorrhea, no period, or I have endometriosis, which is a very complex um menstrual disorder, um, the first thing I look to is the liver, and I get really curious about that. And then, yeah, in terms of trauma, the scholars of Chinese medicine really understood lineage and they really observed how kind of going back to like epigenetics of this massive immersion and the most recent research is that what and how we're holding and living gets passed to future generations. And that could be extremely positive and sometimes it's not so helpful, but that all comes from the kidney and specifically something that we call jing, which is our essence. And when it comes to Chinese medicine and also like a trauma model, is we only have so much jing. So if you think of like your bank account, we want to keep that bank account as vital as possible so that we're not running low on funds. And we're born with X amount of Jing, X amount of essence, and that is you know a derivative of what came from our parents' piggy banks, if you will. So, not to like shame or blame our ancestors, because I think for most of them, they were doing the best that they could with their resources and circumstances, but um, there are certain things that we could do to hold on to as much of our bank account or as much as our chi, especially our kidney chi as possible. And the first two things are always lifestyle. So, how are we eating, how are we pooping, how are we sleeping, how are we resting, and how are we having fun? And we don't want any of those in excess, but we don't want any of them completely in depletion either. So we're gonna have enough fun and enough sleep and enough food and enough drink and enough bowel movements.
Always comes back to the pooping.
It always comes back to the poop.
Super funny side note someone sent me a meme of a kid where in picture one they said smile for the camera. In picture two, they said poop. And the kid's smile, picture one was a little bit of a forced a nice smile. Picture two with poop was just face lit up laughing. Just capturing so much joy.
Yeah. And if you're not pooping, you're probably not smiling.
That's true. So that impacts the other element. You're not saying you might not be having as much fun as you could be. Right. And that makes me think of this whole I was just having a conversation with Alex over the weekend where we went away and we had fun and we got sleep, which was great. But we were talking about the diagnosis of IBS and how I had Kathleen Kendall Packett on the podcast to talk about maternal mental health. But we were talking about psychoneuroimmunology and how there are a number of things in Western medicine that have a label, but we don't really have the etiology. We don't fully understand how or why they come to be. And IBS being one of those, like, oh, well, there's something going on. We're not really sure why. Maybe we've done some allergy tests, we didn't get any information. Uh, but there's there's something happening in there. And I think so much about the psychoneuroimmunology of if you're not, if your eating is rushed all the time, like Italians make fun of us because we eat while we're walking and driving as Americans, right? And they're like, what are you doing? Like, go home, sit down, and then eat. If we're not getting enough sleep, and maybe at some point Kathleen and I'll do an entire episode on sleep because we were talking about that too. If we're not having fun and all the biology that happens when we're playing and having fun, that's also going to impact our digestion, right? Like our physiological state in all of those experiences impacts how we're digesting. So could impact whether or not we're pooping or how hard it is or how frequent it is. You know what started the conversation? It was a bumper sticker that said, sorry for speeding, I have IBS. Full circle back to the poop jokes. Full circle, sorry for speeding, I have IBS. All this to say, all of these things that we're taking care of, the yin and yang, the liver energy, the kidney essence, the xing, all of that connects with our lifestyle. So I'm kind of hearing from what you're saying this traditional Chinese medicine view of what I see from a very like Western trauma-informed psychoneuroimmunology model. I feel like there's crossover there where we're like the way we experience things, our relationships, our experience with food, our sleep, all impacts, our digestion, our pain, right? Inflammation in the body, all these things. What can people do to support health there? And what can people do, maybe if they're not even, they don't have access to acupuncture, just to support lifestyle-wise, these organs, these meridians?
Yeah, so I'm going back to my roots is eat seasonally.
Yeah.
First of all, it's more cost efficient. So if you are a person that eats fresh fruits and vegetables, when they're in season, they're more cost efficient. And then the second thing is coming back to that mirrored reflection of our external environment with our internal environment. So eating with the seasons, I think, is one of the most practical, like down-to-earth ways, which I find, you know, my patient population, they're New Yorkers. A lot of folks have been born and raised in the city and have no idea what fruits and vegetables are in season. And like I grew up on a farm. So I'm, you know, like I'm the complete opposite. So I like to tell my patients, go to the farmer's market in your neighborhood and let yourself, you know, outside of the baked goods, let yourself eat whatever there. Like with whatever is on the table of produce, you get to have fun with that in whatever way, shape, or form it comes up. You know, baked goods are a little bit different depending on people's digestive tracts. But easy eating seasonally, it's I think very cost efficient and a great way to get back into that natural rhythm and seasonal ebbs and flows.
So when you're talking about internal environment reflecting external, are you focusing mostly on the seasons or are there other things that are packed into that description?
For a modern person, it goes a little bit deeper because we have the ability and the great privilege to be able to turn water on and it comes out of the facet and adjusts the temperature of the water. And one of the great evils in Chinese medicine is cold. But as a developed nation, we have the ability to turn our heaters on and blow dry our wet hair before we go to bed. So while there is still like a cold element that we want to protect our bodies from, we also want to start looking into the opposite. So what is drying our bodies? So I find like this is not poo-pooing anyone's yum of hot yoga, but I find a lot of my patients that are hot yogi fans, a lot of hot yoga people are chronically dehydrated and therefore are yin deficient. So we can look to the natural world, but we can also get curious about where is there a lot of excess and where might they be a little bit more of a deficiency in our more modern environment as well.
And then are you looking at the elements there? And you're talking about water, are you thinking also about earth and metal and those other things in that model?
I mean, I am because that's where my brain goes. But um to make it like very approachable and tangible from my patients, we root it in the reality of their world. So what does their environment look like? I'm also a big fan of not restricting things from people. So, you know, like if you tell me not to wear socks, I'm going to want to wear socks.
Yeah.
So I'm a big fan of introducing things in to create a feeling of abundance and nourishment rather than like saying, do not use these things or do not consume these things.
Yes. Another thought that I just was wondering about as you were talking about cold is how popular cold immersion is. And I don't see people speaking about it seasonally. I see a lot of research on athletes and do you do it right after a workout or later? And is it impacting your muscle gain in a positive or a negative way? And there's some research, thankfully, on gender there too. I haven't seen a ton because it's pretty much unethical to do randomized control in pregnancy. Most people I've seen avoid cold plunges while they're pregnant. And most of that is just through the recommendation for the warmth and the especially early postpartum, that like cozy warm vibe that so many folks recommend. So I'm wondering if you work with people who practice cold plunging, if you have thoughts about it from a Chinese medicine perspective.
Again, I don't want to yuck anyone's yum, but like from my clinical view, it's a big no-no. I can remove myself from my Chinese medicine lens and look at it from a biomedical model in terms of invigorating the nervous system and increasing the circulatory system, but it's a shock to the system. And when the body is shocked, it's scattering the qi of the kidney.
Okay. Yeah.
And going back to like a birthing person's uh experience, um the cesarean rate in the United States is very, very high for a developed nation. And a lot of people are having birth experiences in a surgical room, which, you know, by the grace of modern medicine, we have the access to these wonderful tools and advancements in medicine. It's an extremely cold environment. And so I find a lot of postpartum patients come to me, and even if I just put my hand on their abdomen, it would feel like an ice cube in their belly. And so full circle back to the cold. That's something that I'm helping patients to like really understand and be in relationship with is like what is the temperature of your own body?
Yeah. There's so much wisdom in everything you've studied and the way that it integrates. So I'm aware that we're sort of jumping around to different things. But I do want to come back to, you know, we had started with general folks, liver kidney stuff. What about someone who is preparing for pregnancy? What are some things to think about, things to notice you would highlight there?
This would bring us over to the earth element, which is the spleen and the stomach, when we can really optimize our digestive tract that's going to create nutrient-rich blood in the endometrium layer so that that life force can actually be implanted into the womb. So I always like to think about like blood building uh nourishment, coming back to the worm. So if you're trying to conceive, cover up those feet, make sure you have warm, cozy socks as often as possible. Uh, hot foot soaks work really well. And hot foot soaks, I've also noticed this is just like a clinical antidote. A lot of my patients who have insomnia. So either the ability to or the inability rather to fall asleep or remain asleep. When we start to introduce an herbal foot soak before bed, it really grounds the chi and can help people sleep more restfully and fall asleep more restfully too. So keeping those feet warm, keeping the belly and the lower back warm. And then slowing down. I think of like that conception and family planning stage as crossing the threshold into what your life could be like as a parent and thinking about slowing down and cultivating like what is a priority and what can be let go of so that you can really hone in on the energy and vitality of welcoming in this new energy and loved one into your family unit.
Yeah, I found that really important for myself. I have, I don't think you can see it in the frame, but just outside the frame here, I have the wall calendar, and every year, about this time of year, it's about time, I'll buy a new one for the next year and I'll plan out oh, where are we traveling and where am I teaching and what's gonna go, you know. And when I knew I wanted to have Isabella or to get pregnant. And I didn't even get a calendar. I was just like, nope. This is the intention. It is the only intention. Nothing else matters this year. It's not about planning. And you know, everyone's different. Some people are still going to need that sort of structure. But I was just like, nope, it's all about the babe right now. So that slowing down and that inviting in a new person very intentionally. And I find what you say to be true. And either folks are intentionally creating that space and slowing down, or it happens and it's kind of a shock and challenging to navigate because yeah, priorities do change and things change. So what have you found then in pregnant postpartum general supports that maybe folks haven't heard about from a Chinese medicine perspective?
We call this um, it gets often translated into English as sitting the moon. It's called the Zowetsa period. So it's 30 days of sometimes translated as confinement, but I think that sounds really harsh. Yeah. I guess it depends on who you're with in your your postpartum phase. But it's a time that the birthing person gets really parented. So historically they would say like the mother gets mothered. And I think what I've observed as a birth worker in American culture is all of the love, care, and affection goes to the baby, which is wonderful because we're grading this new life force in the world. But very little attention is paid to the birthing person or the mama. So food is prepared in a very particular way. We have very strict, gorgeous, gorgeous herbal regimes. So this is like one of my passions is to go into the postpartum home and cook the raw herbs and that aromatic infusion into the home or the apartment and preparing food that's easily to digest and really helps expediting the healing process. And yeah, that's kind of where I'm more and more being called to in both like a professional and personal space right now.
It's such a beautiful and in my mind and heart, like a natural experience, like a very human experience to have. I was lucky to have a postpartum doula who came in, I think only twice a week for those first six weeks. And I had, you know, a few books like the first 40 days, or you had sent a recipe to that Alex lovingly prepared. And so had these like aromatic herbs and you know, snacks with dates and almond butter and roses sprinkled on top. And it was so nurturing. And even the smells and the the what you were talking about, the essence filling the home. There's something about that that feels really grounding and nurturing and felt really supportive for me personally. So I love that you're going into that. You're feeling called into that. I'm really upset that you're so far away because it's not really eco-friendly to go from Brooklyn to California at this stage. But um, I just feel like I would love to have had you and have you nearby for those types of experiences because you're so good at that. It's such a natural fit for you. Thank you. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about trauma from the Chinese medicine perspective. What are things people can do? And if there are caveats for pregnancy postpartum, let's talk about those as well. But let's start with just folks in general. If they've been exposed to trauma, what are some general principles from Chinese medicine that folks might benefit from being aware of?
I mean, trauma will affect all of the body or all of the meridians, all of the internal organs. But it has the biggest impact on the kidney and the heart. Interestingly, in Chinese medicine, heart and mind have the same, they're the same name, shen and shin. And so sometimes as a English-speaking student of Chinese medicine, I would get really confused. Are they talking about the mind or are they talking about the heart? Which Shin is this? Um, but yeah, so the mind, the heart, and the kidneys definitely take the big blow. But interestingly, so does the pericardium. So the pericardium, maybe you're familiar with this because I I know a lot of my California friends are. Are you familiar with the beautiful shrines from Mexico? And they're often made out of like a clay or a really beautiful wood, and they have like ten hinges, and the shrine doors can open and close, and oftentimes there's like some form of a deity inside. Yeah. I think of the pericardium as the shrine, and when the pericardium is functioning properly, it has really well lubricated hinges. And so when something impacts the heart, the pericardium will close its doors to protect the heart, and it'll take every impact it can to protect the heart until it can no longer protect it. And so, in terms of integration of and healing of trauma, we really want to work that pericardium. And I like to think of like lubricating the hinges so it can open and close properly after traumatic events, so that we can build our resiliencies, so that we can lean into and orient towards safety, and that we can also come back to that self-protection if and when we need. And one way that we can do that through the lens of Chinese medicine is working with the lung, part, and pericardium channels on the inner arm. And just like we do for trauma-informed yoga, using the breath and using the body from that top-down and bottom-up approach. It's not called yoga through the lens of Chinese medicine, it would be called uh qigong or daoyen practice, and all that means is inner alchemy or using the breath and the body to move qi. Do you want to do a practice? Is that interesting? Okay. So, and people might have experienced this also in some Y for T movement, but we could just start off with our hands on our body if that feels interesting. Just taking a moment to feel your palms and the way in which they're making contact with the texture of your clothes or maybe even the temperature of your skin. Yeah, and I just could be opened or closed, and just getting a sense of how the breath is coming in and out of the body. And if and when it feels right, we're just gonna expand the arms any amount that feels interesting. So it could be low, it could be high. Just taking the arms outward, and then when you've found a place where they've expanded to, we're just gonna bring it right back in. And I always like to link my movement with my breath. So if that feels interesting for you, you could inhale as you expand the chi. And then exhale as that chi comes back to center. Breathing in the chi expands. And then breathing out the chi centers. And then just trying to do two or three more at your own pace. You can get creative with the arms, you could even flex the wrists or move the hands around.
I love it so much. I love simple things that we can do most anywhere. Like maybe you don't stretch your arms straight out to the side while you're driving, but you're in the grocery store or you're, you know, walking down the street, you kind of do these things. And I love the more practice tools that we can go, oh, right, you know me. I love to think about this stuff. I love to talk about this stuff. And then you do it and you're like, that was nice. I like it. I want to do it again.
Yeah. And I always tell my New York patients, it's the greatest way to get your own seat on the subway.
Stretching out your arms. Oh, I'm just all for your situation today. But have you seen the episode of 30 Rock where Liz Lemon starts dressing up like she just like paints her hair gray and puts her hair sticking out and starts just talking to nobody and she figures out that she gets her own space in some way that way. She kind of like rounds over and scowls at people, kind of like the like a wicked witch kind of vibe thing. It's you can probably find a clue. I'll see if I can find one and send it to you. I have so many thoughts. I think this with guests like you, Tara, I'm like, we could just do a whole season and like we could talk about sleep one day. We could talk about getting pregnant the next one, we could talk about pregnancy, we could talk about postpartum, we could talk about trauma. And I know we're talking about all of that and weaving it in in different ways. There's a couple more things I want to see if we can connect with here. One of them is you mentioned qigong and what was the other practice? Tao Yen. Dao Yen. And I know there is some crossover in some worlds where folks will teach yoga in a way where they're including information about the meridians and Chinese medicine. In your mind now, when you look at yoga as a practice, and in yoga, we would say the nadis instead of the meridians, right? The energy lines that go through the body, which aren't an exact map of TCM and of the meridians, but they have similarities. What would you say is happening through yoga practices? And how can we use yoga in a way that cultivates health from a Chinese medicine perspective?
So the yoga poses something that probably a lot of your listeners are familiar with, like Virbhadrasana 2 or Warrior 2. That's a huge meridian stretch. So the inside of our legs, we're opening up the spleen, the liver, and the kidney. As the arms are expanding, we're opening up the both the yin and the yang meridians of the arms. So we've got our lung, our pericardium, and our heart, and then our large intestine, our small intestine, and our our triple born or sandjiao, which is a whole nother podcast episode, the sandjiao, the mystical sandjiao. But if you think about stretching or expanding the energy, kind of a liken to a garden hose. So if anyone's ever had a garden hose in their hand and kinked it, and it'll stop the flow of the water or at least slow it down to a trickle. And then when you open up that garden hose, the water will really shoot further and farther. The same thing with our yoga postures. So there's different ways that we can stretch and expand the meridians, and then there's also ways that we can like twist or tot or constrict the meridians to get that distribution between expansion and contraction.
So the expansion and contraction in the yoga practice can kind of open up the flow, like almost like a lymphatic massage where there's compression and then there's expansion, and that helps move uh qi or energy through.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And on a lot of East Asian exercise practices, you'll see body tapping. Um, so tapping the meridians is a wonderful way to move qi as well. Because when qi isn't moving freely, that's where disharmony arises. So they'll say if the qi is free-flowing, there's no pain, there's no disharmony. When the qi is stuck, there's pain, and often the mind, because the body affects the mind, will also be disturbed.
Can you talk about how your trauma-informed training impacts the work you do today?
Well, first of all, it got me in a lot of trouble at school.
Yeah.
How so? Because I wasn't willing to move at the pace of the school.
Wow.
Um, I was much more rooted in my patient and like centered in my patient care.
Yeah.
And I wasn't willing to let the school's parameters or limitations or time frames take away from centering my patient's care. Interesting. Um, so I got in a lot of trouble. Um, but I will say, in private practice, I think it's one of the primary reasons why people seek me out as a care provider, is my bedside manner is completely different. The dialogue that I have with patients is completely different. I'm always making sure that the patient is at the forefront of the care, and the patient is always in the driver's seat of when we begin needling. If the needles aren't useful, they're the first ones to be in the driver's seat of their health with that. And Chinese medicine is asked actively asking the patient to be a participant in their healing journey. We don't want any bystanders in the health journey. So the patient goes home with practical and tangible things that they get to do every single day to create more vitality in their lives. Yeah, so it's definitely shifted the way that I see the beginning, middle, and end of a treatment.
Yes.
Um, and also the way in which my patients are active participants in their healing. Yeah. Sorry, we got you in some trouble there, oh I got I, you know me. I'm not into following roles.
I know you're not. You are an independent thinker. It's one of the things I really like. Oh I'm curious, just as someone who met you in 2015 when you joined the very first Yoga for trauma online training that I offered. I'm curious what that journey has been like these past 10 years doing the Y4T training. You did the first um advanced training in 2017. So you are a founding member of the Center for Yoga and Trauma Recovery. How has that impacted the arc of your work?
Oh I mean, like 10 years. Lisa, wow, Y4T is rocket.
We have an anniversary party. Yeah, congratulations. Thank you. I know, isn't it crazy? It's been so long.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was still working in fashion and I was logging on at my desk, splitting the screen between like work emails and Y for T training and like taking notes underneath my desk. Um, so that's kind of funny. I think that that might be helpful for like listeners who are interested in Y for T. Like you don't have to be ready to do the thing to learn about the thing.
Yeah.
And then I would say the advanced training was life-altering, mostly because it rooted me in community between you and Megan and Molly. I just feel like I have this sisterhood that you know I'm having a crap day, and I pick up the phone and everyone's sending me emojis, and it's just like the most loving crew I could have ever dreamed for.
I'm so grateful that we were able to connect through that program. I just have so much respect for your work and all the ways that you've brought it together. Thank you. I feel like I remember you getting like a reading somewhere and someone saying, Oh, acupuncture, and you were like, Oh, yeah.
Yeah. I went to India to study yoga and in southern India and Kerala. And I went to this Vedic astrologer who did my astrology and was like, You're gonna be a doctor. And I was like, No, and being very like, you know, American about this. No, I'm a yoga instructor. What do you mean, a doctor? And he's like, No, you're going to be a doctor. I couldn't have imagined back then where I am right now. It definitely was not in the forefront of my vision boards or plans or wishes or dreams. But I can honestly say, like, I was walking to work today this morning, and every cell in my body is like, this is exactly where I need to be.
Yeah.
That feels good.
Yes. I love that. On those lines, what is alive for you in your work right now? What's coming up next for you?
So, because I've met so many beautiful people around the world, folks have been encouraging me to put together an online community that's rooted in seasonal medicine. So we're using the lens of Chinese medicine specifically for women's health. And so it'll be just like a monthly offering, movement, meditation, kitchen medicine for the season. And then um, I've been working on a program for several years now that goes through the Chinese medicine approach to the different phases of a menstrual cycle. So through those lenses, we look at qi, we look at blood, we look at yen, and we look at yang. And I've taken my trauma-informed yoga experience and broke that down into movement practices that help with building vitality and boosting qi and nourishing yen during those different phases of the menstrual cycle.
So sign me up. Sign my 16-year-old self up too. Like, why couldn't I have this sort of this level of support around being a woman and menstrual cycle from 12-year-old self even? Yeah. So amazing for doing that and offering that. Thank you.
Yeah.
I often ask folks what brings them hope, but I'm feeling called to ask you instead, what do you do for fun? Because you're talking about fun as one of these elements. So, how do you have fun?
I have really been enjoying New York City and pretending I'm a tourist in my own city. Nice. So every week I choose one New York City activity that's specifically unique. And it could be, it's typically free because there's so many free things to do in the city. But I went to the Guggenheim the other day, and then one day I was like, I'm just gonna ride the New York City ferry taxi. I never do that. And yeah, just pretending to be a tourist in my own city and falling back in love with the reason why I live in New York.
Yes. Oh, that's beautiful. It's such a good practice. Whenever I live somewhere and I've known that I was gonna leave, like maybe it was temporary, or maybe I decided to move and then I knew I just had a few months left. I would always bring that approach because all of a sudden you have this limited time and it'd be, oh, well, I never done that, I hadn't done this and I haven't done that. And let me just go out to this pier that I've never been to that everyone visits and take this hike that I've always wanted to. And it's such a nice way to fall back in love with the space, to create beautiful memories, to have great experiences and to have fun.
Yeah. Oh, I'll have to share this because I think this community would appreciate it. One of my patients is working on this research project with different neuroscientists on our brain's connections to the memories in our phones. And so how they're measuring the frequency that's going on with our brains and the different centers that get lit up when we look back to pleasant memories and experiences. I think our culture is a little over invested in the phone, but there are so many positive things that can come out of documenting enjoyable moments and really pleasurable experiences.
Yeah, it's like so many things in life. There are some substances or things that we might use that are really mostly harmful and we can just cut out. But for the most part, it's like something like a phone. We have a lot of studies and talk about how screens can be harmful or detrimental, but there's so much amazingness too. So if we're gonna be using them, if they're gonna be there, can we maximize that resourcing? Because I love seeing those memories. And I've thought many times, well, I don't have a physical photo book I used to print out and write things. I don't do that anymore, but I see things much more frequently now. Like I just got a memory from a year ago of Isabella and we went to this bike race in Nevada City and just seeing it, remembering it, feeling it again this year, and it's really beautiful. So it's it is nice to highlight, like you talked about with food too. Like, how can we bring in the nurturing elements of things? I think in America we like to be like, no, no, no, cut this out, don't do that, don't do that, right? Like, but then what do I do? And even with child rearing, yeah, let someone know that not to do something, if especially if it's run into the street while there's cars coming, but like give them somewhere else to go. Like Isabella and I walked into a store while Alex was on his bike ride and it was all these like crystal glass sculptures. And I went, eyes only, babe, eyes only. And the woman at the counter was like, that's good. I'm gonna use that. Because you know, our our instinct is to say, Oh, it's breakable. Don't touch, don't touch, don't touch. And then there's this like fear and oh yeah, I did something bad or I did something wrong. And and she listened, right? She just looked around and then started running back in and out of the store 12 times. So it worked out. You I can't wait for you to meet her, Tara. You haven't met her yet. I know. No, just let the photos get that babe in your arms. Another parent said, I wish I could keep every version of them. And I was like, Oh, that's really sweet. Yeah, right. It's like I'm glad I have these memories to look back on in my phone and like every day is different, and it's really beautiful. Thank you, Tara, for coming today. I just think I have 18,000 ideas of different things we could talk about, so maybe come back. Yeah, of course. The Tara Panini show. I will pick your brain and we will organize it on different topics and it will be fun. It'll definitely be fun. Awesome. Thank you, Tara. Thanks, Lisa. Thank you so much for listening. Now, I'd really love to hear from you. What resonated with you in this episode and what's on your mind and in your heart as we bring this conversation to a close? Email me at info at how we can heal.com or share your answers and what's been healing for you in the comments on Instagram, or you'll find me at How We Can Heal. Don't forget to go to howwecanheal.com to sign up for email updates as well. You'll also find additional trainings, tons of free resources, and the full transcript of each and every show. If you love the show, please leave us a review on Apple, Spotify, Audible, or wherever you're listening to this podcast right now. If you're watching on YouTube, be sure to like and subscribe and keep sharing the shows you love the most with all your friends. Visit how we can heal.com forward slash podcast to share your thoughts and ideas for the show. I always, always love hearing from you. Before we wrap up for today, I want to be super clear that this podcast isn't offering prescriptions. It's not advice, nor is it any kind of mental health treatment or diagnosis. Your decisions are in your hands, and I encourage you to consult with any healthcare professionals you may need to support you through your unique path of healing. In addition, everyone's opinion here is their own, and opinions can change. Guests share their thoughts, not that of the host or sponsors. I'd like to thank our guests today and everyone who helped support this podcast directly and indirectly. Alex, thanks for taking care of the babe and taking the fur babies out while I record. Last and never least, I'd like to give a special shout out to my big brother Matt, who passed away in 2002. He wrote this music and it makes my heart so very happy to share it with you here.
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