Megan Zipin - mother, wife, marathon runner, poet, and survivor of the Boston Marathon bombings - joins host Lisa D for this episode of How We Can Heal. They discuss how the trauma of the bombings manifested physically and mentally for Megan over the last ten years since the attack, how she has found healing through yoga, writing, and helping others, and what she wants to teach her young children about resilience and hope. She also reads several selections from her upcoming book of poetry "First Light." This inspiring episode is for anyone experiencing the lasting effects of trauma on their journey to healing.
Get Meghan's book " First Light" https://www.amazon.com/First-Light-Meghan-Zipin/dp/B0BP9VT1C3
This episode was produced by Bright Sighted Podcasting
FULL TRANSCRIPT BELOW
- This transcript was auto-generated
Lisa Danylchuk 0:04
Welcome back to the how we can heal podcast. My name is Lisa Danylchuk I'm a licensed psychotherapist specializing in complex trauma treatment. I'm also a graduate of Harvard University and UCLA. Today's guest is the first person to be on the podcast twice. She remains someone very near and dear to my heart. Our guest today is Meghan Delaney Zipin. Meghan is a physical therapist and yoga teacher specializing in managing the complex symptoms of trauma, PTSD, grief and emotional distress, which she's navigated firsthand. She was originally drawn to yoga to cope with the trauma of the Boston Marathon bombing in 2013 when her foot was on the finish line as the bombs went off, she's openly shared her healing journey and will share with us today, the art she has created in the aftermath of that tragedy. During her victim impact statement to the court following the attacks, the judge asked her if she could explain the long term impact of the harm done. Her statement reads in part, it is nearly impossible to answer your question. Your question is too simple and the fight is too complex. All at once felt secure and safe in the world is Jarred. PTSD is a beast I continue to tackle and work to control severe anxiety, frequent nightmares, and the disconnect associated with losing all that wants to find me. Megan and I connected in 2015 when I was teaching a workshop in Boston, Massachusetts, she soon after became a student in my yoga for trauma certification program, and completed the advanced training program in 2017. She's a founding member of the Center for yoga and trauma recovery, and is one of the kindest, most heartfelt humans I have ever met. I'm so grateful we get to hear her reflections on healing today, on this 10 year anniversary of the Boston Marathon bombing. Let's give Megan a very warm welcome back to the show. Megan would you like to start by writing space
Meghan Zipin 1:55
short? Space. One time I heard the space between striped grains makes the woods strong. The space between musical notes creates the magic him. The space between two heartbeats holds our sweet breath. For when we lose our breath, our pace our space, our trace of angel's wings, we lose our chance to ease again and feel the music seeing the space is what invites our breath to land sweetly on our soul. The space is where our bodies rest as tears run down our nose. The spaces where we feel that catch and halt are swallowed pride. The space bears witness silently to grief hidden deep inside. If it is the space that makes the woods so strong and makes the music sing, then please give me the space to breathe again and grow my phoenix wings.
Lisa Danylchuk 2:57
So beautiful. And just knowing you the way that I do, I feel like it captures so much of journey of him in life and processing hard things and growing from them. And thanks for coming back on the how we can heal podcast. I love, love love. I just love talking to you. I just love having like, carved out time for conversations is the best. And I love that we get to share this with folks because we are gonna share this episode. I mean, we're recording it really close to the 10th anniversary of the Boston Marathon. And that experience has been such a part of your life and journey. Yeah, I'm excited to share this with folks who are processing that as a community around Boston as a world coping with trauma, harm, terrorism, all the rough stuff. Right. So thank you for your courage, and your art. And your willingness to continue forward messily with joy and life. I think you're just a beautiful example of that.
Unknown Speaker 4:12
Thank you, Lisa.
Lisa Danylchuk 4:14
As we're coming up to this 10 year anniversary of the 2013 Boston Marathon bombing. I'm sure it's been in your mind and heart. I know every year when the marathon comes around, you start to smell the smells in the air and yet the runners training out in the whether it be spring weather or sled used to know and feel the feels around that right around the process of of connection and healing you have to this event. So as we're approaching this 10 year anniversary, I'm really curious because I don't know that we've talked about this. What brought you to the start line of that marathon and what's the story there?
Meghan Zipin 4:52
Yeah, that's a great question. I was a runner for many years and first marathon I ran was the 2008 Boston Marathon and I ran for Boston Children's Hospital. And then in 2013, I decided that I wanted to run Boston again, I was running for them Michael lives now respite center for kiddos who have a wide range of challenges and a place for parents to either spend time with them or have them really safely cared for, just to be able to take a break. And to know that their their kiddo is safe. And they are an awesome organization. That's a based right in Hopkinton, which is the start line of the marathon. And what was very cool about that year is that I got to stay at the respite center the night before. So I stayed there, I woke up and I was at the start line. So that was a very different experience. And the reason I was always running for charity is that anyone who's ever looked into running the Boston Marathon, if you are not an elite, or very fast runner, and you are, let's say less than 35 years old, it's very difficult to qualify.
Lisa Danylchuk 6:23
Increasingly, year by year, and I know, I gotta I gotta get older, but then the time go down.
Meghan Zipin 6:31
I remember being like, okay, so if I was 57, maybe quite, you know. So I'm running for charity was always just a good motivator for me to get out there on the hard days and do it even though I loved writing very much. That's why I was there. I was running because I loved it. It was a meditation. For me, it was it was something my body did easily, you know, and I always I was tell people who are like getting into running, like running sucks until it doesn't. And that's awesome. Yes. So you just have to kind of get to that part where your body isn't, I think people would maybe use like the word suffering, like suffering so much when like your limbs feel heavy, and your breathing feels hard. But once your body kind of gets into that rhythm, it can be a moving meditation for a lot of people 100% And I ran the San Francisco marathon, I ran a marathon called grandma's marathon in Duluth. But Boston is special, there is not an inch of where there's not a person who just seems so invested in you. Yeah, as a runner. I love to running because I love that everyone is at the start line. And we're all working for the same thing. And I feel like that's very rare in the world that like there's this massive group of people. And we're all about to do something really hard. And we're gonna do it together. There was so much that that brought me there. It is a special
Lisa Danylchuk 8:18
race, though. And I feel like the heart that shows up from the communities like all around Boston and beyond, like you said, the whole course is lined with this enthusiasm and this camaraderie, and then within the the course as well. I mean, there's the history in terms of women beginning to run, and I'm sure there's a history and you know, an ongoing history just of inclusion there. But the course is the same for everyone. Right, the beginning to end, the triumph and the celebration and the challenges and all of it that come with committing to something that that's hard like that, and life is hard. And so there's such a parallel process that can come up of like, for me definitely with running, finding community and finding a way to nurture myself through a race. Right, I ran in what was it 2018 That you so beautifully invited me and you're like, you're not running for me. And I was like, Can I run in your honor? Maybe I just feel like it is really special. And even when I was in grad school, I wanted to run it. But I was like, I'll have to train between three and 5am.
Meghan Zipin 9:26
The time commitment is huge. But when you're running downhill for 20 miles, and then you have to run uphill, like it's a different ballgame.
Lisa Danylchuk 9:36
It's a whole other ballgame. Right? Yeah. So it's a special space. And I imagine you know, and we don't have to get into the details of the trauma of it. Whatever you're comfortable sharing is fine, but I don't want to ask that of you. I feel like that beauty and that encouragement and that like physical dedication and exhaustion. Just to face something so horrific at the finish of that. And so is there anything you want to share about that experience and what brought you through it?
Meghan Zipin 10:11
I think one of the things that I think about a lot is that the people who did this, they couldn't have picked a place to interrupt more joy, the finish line of the Boston Marathon, it's runners who didn't think that they could finish something. It's non runners who didn't think they could finish something. It's the people who support them. It's the random people who left work early to go to the finish line. It's the people hanging up their windows who work in the buildings up above, when you make that right on Hereford and left onto Boylston, and you can see the finish I have had and asked other women to run so they can have that moment, because there is so much joy. And so to rupture and steal that joy, the ripple effect is just so big. It's the people who were there. It's the people who were watching, it's the people who were a little further away. It's the people who they ran towards. It's the people watching on TV, it's the people who knew their families were there. It's the doctors to the nurses, it's, you know, you if you actually do the ripples like it's broad and wide. And it isn't until many many years later that I can reflect back and realize that even the helpers were so traumatized, the whole city was just in a state of disbelief with nowhere to turn because there was so much need. You know, I guess there's also another part of it that is important to talk about, and we don't, I suffer from PTSD. And my PTSD is extremely physical, like my symptoms are very physical. And they're triggered by things that are around like heat can can trigger it, all of these people, let's say the runners say had just run for probably somewhere around four hours. Yeah, at that point in time in the race, their joy was huge. Their endorphins, their hormones are everything it was at its peak of like openness and joy and fatigue. And then hard stop to your nervous system into fight or flight. What that does from like, an integration system, like an integrative process, and like an understanding of what just happened, it's like a break in the system, like an actual breakdown of how your party operates. I haven't been in a place to say like, what got me through until very recently, because I feel like now and still, like I'm still in I'm just like, in a different place.
Lisa Danylchuk 13:08
Yeah, it's an ongoing journey. And I think a lot of times when we talk about PTSD, whether folks are having emotional or mental or somatic or very physical impacts. We want the six sessions of EMDR to resolve it, right? We want to be like, I know what happened, but it doesn't impact me that much anymore. We want that. And I mean, I can say this with my experience of traumatic grief to where like, we think, Oh, give it a year, or Oh, give it like, I think I'm giving it this big, generous amount of time. And I'm like trying decade or two. And so I feel like that can be really hard, because especially I think folks who might be ambitious or driven, you know, signing up for a marathon is even a big ask. So sometimes we can approach our healing in a similar way of like, well, if I just train and just follow the protocol, right? It'll work out healing can be so messy, and we know nonlinear and all over the place and iterative. And I appreciate you, you saying that. And also the element of like, yeah, a decade does give you some distance to go What? What has been helpful here, right? Let me actually reflect and to get to a space where, even physiologically, it feels possible to like sit and reflect and make meaning is huge. So and I know, I know, yoga was a big part for you and you know, teaching yoga and sharing yoga in a unique and beautiful way. I remember I feel like I was still in Boston that happened when I was I was back here in California. And I remember Patricia Walden who is an iyengar yoga teacher, who I was with in Cambridge the whole time I was there, her putting out like a sequence for healing. I lived in Watertown, not that far from where they found the last bomber. So speaking of those ripples, and I remember our running group running 26 months 26.2 that week, as a tribute, right, all of us logged that. And so I think it's easy to say it's a global ripple effect. And folks who are in the yoga world who are like, not renters actively not into it, or right, or offering these insights, contributions, some sort of, hopefully relief. Well, I also
Meghan Zipin 15:29
just want to say to all the people out there who will fall in my boat of EMDR, I always joke that I was an EMDR failure, like I did EMDR, for like, at least a year, and talking about the physicality of like, what panic can be like for anybody in any situation. Every time within the practice of EMDR, it would get to the point where that would be challenging. And, you know, there's a, there's a whole protocol, but as far as like staying with it, and staying with the discomfort, my body would be like, hard, no, nope, I'm not doing it. And I would want to leave, I went like, Nope, we're not doing this anymore. Because my body literally I couldn't overcome, like, what was happening. So to anybody else who's trying EMDR and reading a lot about how it's like, the be all fixable. I think it's amazing for the people it works, but there's also be who doesn't work for and you're not alone. And you could still do. Okay,
Lisa Danylchuk 16:35
thank you for that. I think that's super important.
Meghan Zipin 16:37
I had no yoga background before this, and was a runner. So I was like, you know, are like probably motions. But I was looking for something where I could use a lot of anxious energy, my only goal would be, I'm just going to go and try and listen to what they say, Yeah, I just want to try and pay attention, because even attempting to anyone or anything, was really hard for me. So I would go and I would stay in the back. And I would, you know, wiggle around and be uncomfortable in any parts of stillness or get up and leave. But when we got into a flow of a practice, and we and I started to learn and get a little bit stronger in different ways, I was able to begin to taste like a whisper of that calming meditative nature that running offered me except it was an eliciting panic, because I was doing so it was such a different practice.
Lisa Danylchuk 17:47
You know, one thing I want to highlight is, I think sometimes people think, Oh, I can't do yoga, I'm not flexible, right? I've heard that so many times as a yoga teacher, myself, and I love that you're going in with the purpose, the intention to just listen, just to practice paying attention, even just to what the teacher saying, let alone at some point your own body. And then I also makes me remember, you know, a big transition in my body and life was losing my elder brother when I was 22. And I remember going to class probably the day the week before and like full forward fold pushing on to NASA like, belly on thighs, chest on shins, head on up, you know, and within, you know, probably hours days, weeks after like, being that that like stereotypically new or body the other were like, Okay, now I'm in a seated forward fold pushing on to NASA and my feet are hips distance apart, and my knees are bent and I'm on a bolster, and it hurts and like I can't move forwards, I think about living in a body that's used to running and going to yoga and going. Right like, like that, it's only gotten how common that is for us to look right and left and compare and contrast. And then I also think of just the, you describe so eloquently, what something like what you experienced will do for your nervous system, and then what your nervous system and your body and everything can hold on to in the aftermath of that. And so I just think of you not being used to doing yoga and showing up and doing it and then I think of the combination of like, anything stressful, anything traumatic, any reaction in your body to that that you're holding, carrying in also then brings up this you know, you're getting in touch with potentially that same feeling you mentioned with EMDR little bit by little bit, right, but in yoga, it's much easier to titrate that and go oh, this is too much for today. I'm just gonna breathe and back off because usually the instructor is offering some kind of instruction around that right like don't push too hard about pain, like something's too much, make sure you can breathe, all that kind of stuff. And then I also want Let's say that to the EMDR point, I offer EMDR. I'm big fan, it's been super helpful for me with certain aspects of of healing and my own work. It often folks who are trained in EMDR have heard this. It's going, it's trying to get to the root, right, and the earliest and the strongest and the, like, let's find that and uproot all of the symptoms that you're experiencing right from where they're from, which, in principle is helpful. It makes a lot of sense. And we don't always do that, right. We sort of dally around the branches a lot.
Meghan Zipin 20:33
Yeah, I was like, I only want to go to therapy and talk about the weather. That is all I'm interested in.
Lisa Danylchuk 20:40
Okay, and legit, right? I was just talking to someone last week. And I was like, What about just counseling, like, you don't need to go to trauma therapy and talk about this really hard thing, or the most significant changes that are happening in your life? What if you just go and say what's on your mind and have this space for someone to really listen to you, and whatever, wherever you are in whatever you want to talk about. There is a big push EMDR is this power tool, and it's gotten all this research and support. And I've heard professors say, this is what you should do, you should tell your story, you should go to EMDR. And I just think those messages can do such a disservice.
Meghan Zipin 21:19
How can I be so broken? That what everyone is saying should fix me is not working? Exactly. That was my life. And I would go back every week, and every week, I would think like, I must just be so broken.
Lisa Danylchuk 21:35
And that's the impact of those kinds of messages. It does a service to the people who have the least trauma, like the people who are like, Oh, I was in a car accident. And then I went into did 10 sessions of EMDR. And it felt a lot better. And everything else in life didn't really change, right? It's like, what about folks who have experienced things like what you experienced? Right? Can we make sure that in our education, about trauma, we're, we're protecting invested in their experience and speaking to that first, because the other folks will get their healing and right, like, they'll go to EMDR and be like, Oh, I feel a little better this week. And I feel a little better that week. And I think folks with complex trauma, developmental trauma, dissociative challenges, it doesn't map that way. And, you know, I've been very involved in academia and research settings, and we know that we're like, oh, well, that's not clean. So those people don't join the study. So I really appreciate you sharing that and speaking directly to people who are feeling that way. Because it's common, it's common to feel like, wait, I'm doing this thing that's best practice. And then everyone says, it's gonna help and it's not working in that. And then we internalize, right? We go, it must be me. It's like, no. It's the gnarly things that you've been through. So yoga helped. And now you're in this place where you have your book, first light, which I'd love for you to show for folks who are watching on video, I just love the cover. It's got this little the stars swirling in the purple, and it's like the night and the brightness. And I love I love just seeing it in print as well.
How has writing poetry been healing for you?
Meghan Zipin 23:23
Writing poetry did not start out as writing poetry. Part of my initial anxieties after the marathon was that I always wanted to have my phone. Yes, I always needed to have my phone because I always needed to be able to get into contact with who I wanted to get to catch up with when I wanted to. Because it happened that I couldn't, you know, so,
Lisa Danylchuk 23:46
right, the comms were all shut down. I was on my phone.
Meghan Zipin 23:49
And I wasn't sleeping. And I, you know, was kind of floating through the worlds but always with my phone. And so over the course of starting therapy, and at first not really jiving with a therapist, but kind of being pretty out of body to not even really know that that was the case. I started writing in my phone, and it felt like a place that was safe. Again, at that time you I'm in a community where every practitioner knows someone everyone is connected, intermingled. And so when you know you sit down and you start with so I was at the explosion and people would go you know, I couldn't handle it. So I started writing in my phone because there would be no reaction. And I could kind of just say what I wanted to say and you know theoretically have someone I guess theory here it and then I could close it and no one could ask me one more time. Question No one could ask me to like talk a little bit more about something I don't want to say became like a ritualistic practice, but it did become like a go to source for me, when I started having children, I would start writing about them. In part because I didn't want to forget things part of my PTSD. My fear is that I will forget parts of things, things that are happening now. Because I have forgotten things that have happened in the past. So it just started working with like a lot of documentation. And then over the last three years, I started looking at it like, this is my life kind of luck. And realize that I was in a place where I wanted to see what my life looked like if I crafted it like a bit more artistically. And so I took all of these middle of the night, like, wins, and I started using them as prompts Basically, yes, I think in many ways, it helped me integrate a lot of things that helped me, it offered me a place for what I'm hoping is community, like my goal and writing this collection, which spans, you know, the bombing and the trauma that I personally live with, to my relationship with my husband, to the birth of my children and parenting them. I want somebody to be able to pick it up and say, Oh, me, too, like, that's the feeling. This is what it feels like to live in a body that's like mine. And I want a reader to feel something in their body. And I want somebody who needs to hear it to know that they are not the only person in that position. And my hope is that it's on the right side of triggering, because I've it's creative in nature, you know, it's not meant to be like, jarring. Yeah. I mean, you read that way to sound. But that's not my intention.
Lisa Danylchuk 27:15
Right. And that's always going to vary based on where someone is and what they can emulate with a note, I have favorite songs that sometimes I listen to, and they elicit joy and sometimes sadness. And sometimes I'm like, I can't even listen that right now. It's so intense, right? So it's gonna vary, but you know, having read it, I feel like it's very relatable. And like, it speaks to a lot of what's under the surface that we don't maybe have the opportunity to talk about so much. Or like your example of just writing in the phone, sometimes we can't find the right place. Right, those thoughts or feelings are quite capture the words, which is why I feel like the poetry is so powerful, because it's not a narrative, beginning, middle and kind of story. And I think it's so beautiful of you to share too, because I feel like there can be this curiosity people have for people like you who've been through like something that, you know, was so newsworthy, and so so much global awareness, and can be very challenging to respect that person's process. And have people have a window in to like, what is this like? Because I think people feel compassion, they feel compelled, they feel so much response to a tragedy, and they want to help, they want to understand but just like we've been talking about, even with EMDR, or telling your story, it's like, that can be a lot to ask, right? Early in my career, I had to learn that when I was working with veterans coming back from combat, like, it wasn't the most helpful to just ask them to tell their story. Like there were a lot of other things you needed to, to work on and other supports they needed before that, if ever that I feel a generosity in you sharing this, and I know it's, it's also what's best for you, which is why I feel like it's that sort of great balance of healing, where we can connect with ourselves and our own vulnerability and the things that have impacted us in a really serious way. And share them creatively where other people can resonate with that there's something you've been able to capture and communicate here that's really human and really true and really beautiful. And so I want to acknowledge and celebrate that and that's why I have a number of your books on pre order to share them with. You get your book. I know for folks who have also specifically been through the Boston Marathon bombing in 2013 and had been in the community that that all the things I just said like that they'll benefit from that. Should they be in the place where this is, you know, what they want to engage with? So why, why now? Why, why the, what's the timing of it symbolizes for you? Or what's that? What's that journey been like for you?
Meghan Zipin 30:15
Um, as I started, kind of, I mean, I was putting this together as like a personal practice, you know, let me, let me see. Let me see what I have here. And then even that little thing of like, maybe I do have something as I began to get more formal about it, and really be in a place where I was like, naming it as like, this is my version of, you know, my story like, this is my life, I realized that, you know, I didn't have a story to tell until now, for the people who were intimately life altering ly injured, at the time and a visible way. I think their stories start in a different way. But if you're someone who shared the same experience, but doesn't share, like a visible wound, I think it's very hard to narrate like a beginning point to your story. So I didn't have a story to tell until now. And I didn't have it. It's not that it's the beginning, a middle and an end. But the book, actually, the preface of the book is what's called a victim impact statement. And during the trial of the bomber, I was given the opportunity to speak directly to him. And, you know, share, tell whatever verb you want to use whatever I wanted to him. In one of the set, i There were seven things in the seventh thing that I wrote, and then read to him was, I know, one day, I'll be a better mother and my husband, a better father, because we will show our children all that is good in the world, and all there is to be thankful for. And I feel like, I'm doing that now. Like, I'm, I'm staying true to my word. And, you know, that doesn't matter to him. But it matters a whole lot to me.
Lisa Danylchuk 32:36
No. And that you're, you're taking something really horrific in that moment of stolen joy. And reclaiming your joy and passing that on to your kids and living your life. I know another line from that impact statement is all go to yoga, all eat pizza, like I'm going to I'm going to do these things that bring me joy in my life, even with this really having to metabolize and try to integrate this really horrific experience. Like you're living, right and you're alive. And you're passing that on. And that's really beautiful. I think a lot about when we are in the Redwood Forest and 2017 in Santa Cruz, California and Felton they believe the name of the area and I don't know if you're with me when the the big the guy with the big red beard was? Do you remember him? He took us up in I know you stayed down. I think with Milo right? Why alone? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 33:40
Sometimes I get a time hop. Oh, my goodness, it's everywhere.
Lisa Danylchuk 33:48
You were there at the bottom of the trees with Milo and the rest of us were swinging around the trees. And we had ziplining Yeah, where's the violin? Yeah. And he was just like a very, I don't know, redwood tree guy. So I don't know if you were there at that point. But he pointed to a tree and it had been struck by lightning. And then that tree stopped growing in the same trajectory. It had this like branch trunk, move to the side, the trunk itself, essentially, and then moved up and said, Oh, we call that a reiteration. And I was like, my life that's so many people's lives, right where something unexpected happens and you're like, I'll never know where that original trunk was going. And I can't even like involve myself too much. And what that would have or could have looked like or who that you know who that trunk is. Right? But but I'm alive and I just sort of turned left and kept going towards the light which is again, I love the title of your book first light. So it's like, there's this bend and then it's still You and you're growing, but but you're impacted and it's also different. And so I'm wondering for you now, you mentioned the gratitude that in the joy and that you're passing on through your family, what is what is your reiteration look like? How is your tree different? Because of this experience?
Meghan Zipin 35:21
It's a really good question. And that one of my palms is actually like about tree bar. Like, for that reason, we should read that one for sure. And it's also funny for me just for trees, one of the first like, you know, one of the things that trauma takes from you sometimes is like the ability to make decisions. And you know, like, the practice for me started with something as small as you know, the therapist I was seeing would say, Okay, go to the supermarket. Just pick a vegetable, any vegetable, like, just choose one because, like, there are too many vegetables. Like I cannot do this.
Lisa Danylchuk 36:03
On celery, too. Oh,
Meghan Zipin 36:06
no, no. But one of the first like, decisions that I made was I got a I had no tattoos and I got a really big tattoo on my side. And it's about a willow tree. And I remember telling that artist, it's really important to me that it's on a weeping willow. It's not a sad tree. It's just a willow. And he, he was very sensitive to what I was explaining. And I said, Because willows begged me don't break. Yes. And I wanted that there. And I love it so much, and have since gotten many other tattoos. But that was like one of my first big decisions. And so the tree analogy means that means a lot to me. I think that, as you're describing, like the tree was like growing this way. Right? And then there was a hard stop. Yeah, my life at that, at that point. does feel like a hard stop. I don't, then I'm sure everyone feels differently. I don't have a super strong, like personhood connection to that original trunk. Yeah. Wow. And to the, to the diversion. I have, like a wonky connection. It's, it's me, but the, there were so many iterations of Nia in that, like, if I were that trunk, it would be like, running around. About maybe now maybe, like, I'm starting to write, yeah. And who that person is, is as absolutely different than who I started out as and, you know, my husband and I, for people that have been in situations like this, like he married this. And now Miss. And, you know, now he's, and we all kind of, like score, right? But like, he had that hard step to and like being, you know, person one to someone who's having a real hard time, like, you get reiterated to and like, what do you do if this starts happening instead of
Lisa Danylchuk 38:23
so it's a dance for both of you.
Meghan Zipin 38:26
Yeah, so I, I don't know who I'm gonna ultimately mandalas but I do feel like, despite some swirls, I am going up. And the title first laid, one of the poems talks about how my body is so confused and like, how, despite all of the signs of like, the sun rising or the sun setting, and like, How can I not delineate if it's the first light or the last light? Like, why can I tell? So, my tree is heading towards something first light last light.
Lisa Danylchuk 39:01
And as you head up, what what healing Do you feel like is still present for you in your daily life?
Meghan Zipin 39:10
I feel like there's so much work to do, and that I get the word is not tricked. My five year old would say I get tricked. You tricked me. Like sometimes I feel like to my body like you tricked me like I thought that this wasn't so hard anymore. I thought that like panic did live in me that way anymore. I thought that marathon jackets didn't bother me anymore. You know, anything from like the super benign like that to all of a sudden in my kitchen just like getting really really cold really, really cold and not being able to still in this day decipher like, am I getting sick? Am I cold? Or is my body about to do something like how I still can't tell the difference. I think that's gonna be a lifelong thing. For me. I feel like I do have the stories that I'd like to tell next are. I've been thinking of them as mile markers. But I'd like to write a story of the women who have supported me and over these last 10 years, because they're, I think many of them would identify themselves as like ordinary, but to me, they've been extraordinary. And they've like literally patched me back to being a human. And I apply like to tell that story next.
Lisa Danylchuk 40:41
And I think what you're telling, like the stories that you're telling to the word healing just comes up for me so much in terms of personal healing, collective healing, like community to an end, there's so much connection around that and, you know, sometimes the initial tree and the tree, it becomes like there's, there's just a different awareness there maybe of there can be a safety bubble that's broken, there can be an appreciation of life that's amplified to a degree that will will never change or revert. And there can be so much gratitude in that. Not everyone experiences that. And especially I love how you describe the tingling trunk moving to the side and all over and tied in knots before it starts to go holy. Maybe this way feels good now, maybe rowing towards the sun. Is, is where I want to go. And so yeah, there's just a really beautiful journey that you're capturing there. I think people can really relate to it.
Meghan Zipin 41:58
Yeah, come over to our house, we're messy. We're joyful. We like to messy art projects, my kids are five and three and one and over winter break, they asked you to do spray painting, and I was like, okay, so
Lisa Danylchuk 42:13
I love that you share them jumping in puddles, like making a mess of the living room, just like why are we not having their joy? Right? There's a like a response book to Murray condos book that everyone knows the cleaning up, that's like the joy of leaving your shit all over the place. But I think especially for kids to be able to, you know, just be in that be a little bit in the mess and the chaos that that like we often don't want to. But I think sometimes going through something really traumatic can teach us we can mine the value out of it, and apply it. So I know there's going to be people who are listening who were running the last marathon in 2013, they may or may not have had their foot on the finish line, like you did, they might have been behind or ahead or, you know, in the crowd or all these things. But I'm wondering what you would say to people who actually went through this specific experience with you on that day, you know, in person. And what I know, there's so many layers to that. But let's just even say folks who were in the race who are runners like you, what would you want to say to them?
Meghan Zipin 43:34
I would tell them to just keep going you know, I think it was I think it was Boston Magazine. Within three months or so one of their issues that became very, very popular. People have posters of it in places. It's everybody sneakers kind of in a circle, circle circle circle of runners from that day and the title said we'll finish the race. I still give me that you can't see him still get like that this is just a different version of that, like, keep going because there are times that that has seemed like an impossible ask to me. If someone were to say that, to me, it has seemed like how dare you like you just don't know. And I feel grateful to keep going. So I think I would offer that to them. And simultaneously if they were a runner that day, like you know sometimes you just kind of have that like yeah, no, I think sometimes just saying nothing and just like being beside someone is just as important. And just that unspoken connection Yeah, you know, like, I not sure what events will happen. I know that there will be some on April 15, but I don't imagine striking up a robust conversation with the people around me. And imagine it being more of like a sacred shared space.
Lisa Danylchuk 45:24
Yeah. Just the silence on the connection and the presence. Yeah. I'm just curious, do you have any plans? Or have anyone reached out to around the 10 year anniversary? Or?
Meghan Zipin 45:40
Um, well, the release date for my book is the 10 year anniversary. So I am, I am doing some talks, some readings of my book, my classroom. I know that so the day has morphed into what's called one Boston Day, where there's lots of community service projects that go on. But I do believe that this 10 year anniversary is going to be acknowledged with some specific events. And I can't even tell you today, almost when you ran the marathon, you know, I can't actually tell you like what I'll do and what I wouldn't do, because what I say today might feel different in my body tomorrow. But I think I'm just gonna use it as a point of reflection, and also like a point of joy, like, I have a book that's going into the world that same day that lots was taken from it. So
Lisa Danylchuk 46:47
yeah, I'm curious if there's anything you would say just to folks that are still dealing with PTSD after a long period of time.
Meghan Zipin 46:54
I wish I had like the right. The right answer if and perhaps it has to do with like the yoga work that I do and like sharing space with people who are enduring, surviving, thriving all the aims of PTSD. There's not like a secret wisdom. And there's not a secret like path to healing. I can't say that I'll ever be healed. Like, I don't think that that's my bar. No, I do think that for a lot of us, it's going to be circular and spirally, and iterative. And to someone who is able to hear it, the down part has an opposite. Yeah. And that part, sometimes is really, really good. No, and it sucks like to, like, in a mind blowing way that the repeat happens, like, Yeah, but it does. But up has the potential to happen again to Yes. Someone said to me once that, like history suggests that you have survived all of those different moments up until right now. Yeah, so you have like, you're here. So like, History suggests that this is not the end, you know? And I that for me can be something to like grip on to at times.
Lisa Danylchuk 48:29
Oh, a friend in grad school shout out to my friend Rachel gave me a card once. It was like a Winnie the Pooh card. And it was like it's all okay, in the end, if it's not okay, it's not the end. And it kind of speaks to that same. There's, there's a dynamic motion happening here. And sometimes we do need to, like, open a little to kind of let them or, or open more people
Meghan Zipin 48:54
around us who are willing to like wave the flag and say like, she's not okay, like, I have that person and I'm thankful every day for him. Because when you're in it, sometimes you can't see it.
Lisa Danylchuk 49:10
Yeah. Are you still incorporating like touching your own practice or in work with other people? I know we talked a lot about that in your last episode.
Meghan Zipin 49:19
I when I teach yoga, a lot of my yoga that I teach is one on one and a lot of it is with folks who, as I mentioned are enduring something or medically complex in some way that is very physical as opposed to maybe emotional. And I incorporate touch with everyone permission based. Because almost the same reason that like if I sat next to someone, it wouldn't be weird to me, although it may be weird to the person next to me, even though I think ultimately wouldn't be good. If I was sitting next to someone at a tenure event, and like, I put my hand on their hand, like, there's that connection of like, like, I'm here, I'm here, you're here, we're here, when you can be going so many other places, whether it be in a yoga practice or in, you know, something more strenuous, or childbirth. Yes, it settles my nervous system, which sounds selfish. And in many ways, I suppose, is, but it allows me to also like, offer myself up highest service as far as like, reflecting what a client needs. If if my body is regulated, the mere fact for them is also very regulating. And once that's realized, which for lots of folks happens, quickly, you know, like the end of the session, like I've never had a session like that. That was peculiar. Like you're just touching my shins. Like, I was touching them, but I was touching them with like, I wouldn't say go through this with them. But like, my entire hand was on your shins. I wasn't shaking. I wasn't jittering. That wasn't like thinking about other things. I didn't slip. I didn't move. I was just trying to help. You know that I was here. Like, that's my only intention. Yeah, I incorporate like, with my children as they're falling asleep, like I rest my hand just on their chest, and I don't move and I just like ride with their breath.
Lisa Danylchuk 51:37
There's so much potential for connection and touch. And there's been so many experiences of harm that or, or physical. And I think it's really important that we incorporate consent and that we're not making assumptions, but I live in a world like everyone around me. So trauma informed, like every friend has been like, Can I touch your belly and like, get in here, like Rob Ellie on this pregnant belly, like, come on. And I definitely feel myself that touches such like, I think we can be starved of and so I know in trauma informed practice, we're very, it's just like, barely getting mainstream to ask for consent. And I think that wave is super important. And I also think the wave of awareness of how touch starved we can be in, in different cultures in different ways.
Speaker 2 52:25
Especially post COVID. Yes,
Lisa Danylchuk 52:28
I saw a friend for this baby blessing over the weekend. She just like, put her hand on my arm like this while she was walking by and saying something cute. And I was like, Oh, I feel so good. Oh, no, don't keep walking, like just keep touching my arm. And so I think yeah, communicating around this stuff is is important, but also just leaving awareness for touches our first language we grow inside another human being, you know, if we're not touched in our early days and weeks of life we wither like it's, it's pretty intense. So I think it's important to hold on so I so appreciate all your all the work that you do around this as a physical therapist, as a yoga teacher, as a human, of like, can we talk about when this helps, as well? Just when it's harmful, and can we cultivate environments where it's helping? I'd love to hear some of your poems and I definitely want to make sure we let people know where how and when where they can get your book. Do you want to read the tree bark one and then love letters?
Meghan Zipin 53:31
Sure. Okay, tree bark, carving into a tree's bark scarring and manipulating its outermost layer, the protective one is typically a solitary intention, a declaration of love Memorial or presence. But remember that Mark is permanent. The tree never recovers. It's never as strong as it once was. Forever anemic even as it reaches and grows its orbits wide and tall. The tree for guests and almost believes No, this scar is mine. I put it here. I earned it. It's evidence that I did something. The tree sheltered the wiry from the sun, it encouraged souls to lean. The tree grew a marvelous knot in a spot that love birds claimed as their own. The tree homes, the leaves that wept down to their heads and reminded them of the rain. I did those things I did them and this is my wound exchange. Trades never ends fairly. Most of the time one side slips away ahead. And that carving meant to mark something, it destroys something instead, the tree appears whole unbroken, safe, except where there's that marvelous spot where we ant slips in breaking through to chew unseen rot. The tree takes no notice until far too late. Too many and friends come to live have that little etching most wood things can never kill a tree. But with time and the simmering work of ants, the tree falls to its knees. It's fractured insides doing breaking apart over the years, all because the bark was carved and could never repair or heal. I tell my sons don't pick the bark. It keeps that tree secure. They look at me with their eyes wide. Curious how it could be that a tree so stoic near the sky requires safety to be free. Don't pick the bark on my little guys. They are tender and still growing. Listen closely to that sound. Do you hear it, their coils are still forming.
Lisa Danylchuk 55:44
So beautiful.
Meghan Zipin 55:47
And then the last one I'll read is called love letters. Survivors don't write love letters to their bombers. We post lost signs on neighborhood telephone poles. This has to be about trying this has to be about effort. My try is important. And if you tell me to stop trying, then you're telling me to stop surviving. Survivors don't write love letters to the people who hurt them. We write love letters to those left behind. We write love letters to our former selves. I want to know how many fixers that will take I want to know how many practitioners how many more hours How much more time how many willows how much more bend Have you panicked before really truly panicked. Because if you have then you know you can't possibly take care of someone else. You can't talk can't name what you see in the room. Focus on the color blue, or the hair tie on your wrist. You can hardly breathe. That is survival. Survivors don't write love letters to terrorists. We write letters for ocean bottles and wish for rescue on the other side. No forward momentum no independence, no breaking free no drinking no benzos marijuana, it doesn't even give me a high. survivor's don't write love letters to the stone, we write love letters to the moon and the stars. Trying must matter it must, it must. If only you knew how well you were doing in regards to who allowed me Wait, be patient. You're not alone. But I am. When the panic strikes I am and I begged to not be alone. Survivors write love letters, we grow bigger hearts, we feel deeper gratitude. Our patience is masked by overwhelming fatigue. But it's in there, I promise right next to our try. Trying must matter because otherwise, we're just existing, and just existing will never ever be enough.
Lisa Danylchuk 57:46
Thank you so much. Thank you for gathering all these thoughts together. And I didn't know the story of the of the notes in your phone and the process of it. And I think that just gives it even more depth and history and richness that came from those moments where you just had to get it out when you're in it right? When you're in it, and you got to find some Avenue. Yeah. And you found it and it became something really beautiful. And it's that, like we were talking about before we started recording the lotus flower roots. They go deep, deep, deep in the mud. And I feel like this book is just this beautiful lotus flower floating on top of the water and it roots roots go so deep. Thank you. So how can people get your book first light?
Meghan Zipin 58:41
So firstly, is on pre order right now on Amazon, and Barnes and noble.com. If you pre order it, then it'll ship on April 15. Hmm, yeah. And you can also you can go to my website, which is Megan sippin.com. And it'll link you there as well.
Lisa Danylchuk 59:05
Okay, so that's a good place for people to connect with you. Megan's
Meghan Zipin 59:08
even connect with me there you connect with me on Instagram?
Lisa Danylchuk 59:12
Yes, and see beautiful pictures of your boys playing in mud puddles,
Speaker 2 59:16
the time lapse of them spray painting? Yes.
Lisa Danylchuk 59:20
And I don't know that everyone knows this. But pre orders are super important for books, in terms of like how much continuing exposure they get after the launch. So if you're on the fence, and you're like, Oh, I'll get it later. I'll wait till marathon day. I respect your personal decisions. And I just want you to know that pre orders matter. And then I also want to say because I had such a hard time saying this for myself that reviews really matter for the same reason. So if you love it and it moves you and you have something you want to say to Megan, by all means reach out to her but also let other people know what you're thinking and feeling and respond Send, you know, reviews on wherever you've purchased it will will help and mean something. And they mean something to the author to write, I think I think I can say that, on your behalf begun. I know they're meaningful to me and hearing from readers is always really special. Because just like you talked about, it's about community and healing and connection, so much more than it's about anything else. So yeah.
Meghan Zipin 1:00:28
Thank you again, for for all of that. And thank you for asking me to come back and always been such a support to me as a human like, forget all of this that I support. As a human. I'm super excited for you and your family.
Lisa Danylchuk 1:00:45
Yeah. And I'm super excited for you and your book, baby. Thank you, baby number four. And I'd imagine there'll be that because for us to have you back again.
Speaker 2 1:00:56
I will always be here. All right, everyone
Lisa Danylchuk 1:00:59
loves thank Meghan's and Ben for her contributions here and for your time, thank you so much. Thanks, Lisa. Thanks so much for listening. My hope is that you walk away from these episodes feeling supported, and like you have a place to come to find the hope and inspiration you need to take your next small step forward. For more information and resources, please visit my website how we can heal.com There you'll find tons of helpful resources and the full transcript of each show. You can also click the podcast menu to submit requests for upcoming topics and guests. I look forward to hearing your ideas
Comments are closed