Today on How We Can Heal Podcast, Lisa Danylchuk sits with Delia Ginorio to unfold the realities of working in the field of violence interception. In her experience and the experiences she's listened to, healing clearly is a journey. For everyone, it is lifelong work. In this talk, Delia shares the limitations and boundaries she sets for herself in survivor restoration. She also speaks on the areas she struggles at in work, how she determines when to work and when to walk away, and the pieces that give her hope to continue every day.
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Victims sometimes become perpetrators
For Delia Ginorio, the Director of the Survivor Restoration Program at the San Francisco Sheriff's Department, resources and support programs for survivors and victims of abuse and trauma are always critical. This helps survivors process what they've experienced and to have a platform where they can be heard. In her experience in the field, not having these can carry adverse effects on a survivor.
As Delia recalls her younger years, she puts into the picture how vital support is for abuse and trauma victims. Growing up with trauma, Delia identifies herself as a furious young woman. She carried so much anger that it wouldn't be hard for her to be aggressive to anyone. She was just waiting for somebody. If not for the direction she was taken to in her current career, Delia, in her own words, 'could easily be in prison right now.'
About Delia Ginorio:
Delia Ginorio is the Survivor Restoration Program Director for the San Francisco Sheriff's Department (SFSD) and a nationally recognized expert in criminal justice reform and approaches. Ms. Ginorio is a key leader in the award-winning Resolve to Stop the Violence Project (RSVP).
Since its inception in 1997, she has been instrumental in bringing restorative justice into law enforcement which has helped shift the focus to offender accountability, survivor restoration, and community involvement to reduce recidivism, responsibly return ex-offenders to their communities and prevent further Violence.
Ms. Ginorio leads a team of survivor staff who works directly with the women, children, and men who have been harmed and silenced by Violence in their lives, providing them with practical and emotional support for leading healthy lives. Ms. Ginorio is dedicated to the empowerment and education of the disenfranchised.
She is a highly regarded trainer and speaker on topics such as violence prevention in jail and in the community approaches for working with clients who experience intimate partner violence, new approaches for law enforcement in working with survivors of violence, restorative justice principles, and practices.
She has provided key training and keynotes to law enforcement agencies, community-based organizations, and corporate America locally and nationally, as well as internationally. As a survivor of Violence, Ms. Ginorio understands the importance of providing services to all those affected by crime.
Ms. Ginorio serves as the President of the Board of Directors for the San Francisco's Sheriff's Department Five Keys Charter School. Five Keys is the first charter high school in the nation for adults who are incarcerated.
The school brings together a responsive curriculum that focuses on offender accountability, restoration, and academic, family, and employment skills that invest in the offender and victim. Ms. Ginorio's work and leadership are instrumental in accomplishing the school's mission and goals of becoming a model for restorative justice education.
Outline of the episode:
- [00:25] Two to three sessions are nothing in therapy
- [07:11] Honoring Delia Ginorio's late mother
- [12:45] Victims sometimes become perpetrators
- [17:16] Delia Ginorio's limitations on animal abuse cases
- [25:40] Violence isn't the answer
- [31:06] Delia Ginorio – The hardest population for me to work with
- [36:44] It's healing and powerful for a survivor to share their stories and be heard
- [41:37] It's easier to stay angry than to be deeply sad and hurt
- [48:04] How does Delia find the balance between doing her work and not doing it
- [53:33] But even some of the folks I thought were never going to change are my coworkers today!
Resources:
DV Hotline #'s in San Francisco
Woman Inc: (877) 384-3578
La Casa de las Madres: (877)503-1850
Riley Center: (415) 255-0165
SF Woman Against Rape: (415) 647-7273
Five Keys Schools and Programs
Community Works West – Justice Demands Humanity
RSVP Video Clip:
Resolve to Stop the Violence: Innovator's Focus
Community Works West – Justice Demands HumanityCommunity Works
Resolve to Stop the Violence: Innovator's Focus
Locations — Five Keys Schools and Programs (fivekeyscharter.org)
Domestic Violence Support and Resources
You are not alone. 24/7 help is available if you need support. Reach out for help if your partner or someone in your life is:
Putting you down
Hurting you
Threatening you
Making you feel afraid
In an emergency, call 911
If it is not safe to call 911, you can text 911.
24-hour National Domestic Violence Hotline
Call 1-800-799-7233 anytime.
Chat with advocates anytime.
Asian Women's Shelter
Asian Women's Shelter provides for survivors of domestic violence and their children:
Emergency shelter
Intensive case management
24-hour crisis line
Language access
Referrals
They also provide:
Case management services for youth survivors of sex trafficking
Specialized services for transgender survivors of Violence
Languages: English and 26 Asian languages.
Call their 24-Hour Crisis Line at 877-751-0880
Brennan House
18 months of transitional housing for female survivors of domestic violence and their children. Residency includes domestic violence counseling, support groups, and advocacy.
Call 415- 255- 2894
3453 18th Street
San Francisco, CA 94110
Cameron House: Social Services
Cameron House provides social services, counseling, case management, advocacy, and accompaniment to appointments to Asian women and their children, many of whom are new immigrants and/or survivors of domestic violence.
Call 415-781-0401
920 Sacramento Street
San Francisco, CA 94110
Community United Against Violence (CUAV)
CUAV is for LGBTQQ survivors of domestic violence, hate violence, or sexual assault. Counseling, temporary restraining orders, advocacy, brief therapy, limited emergency housing, a youth program for domestic violence, and youth job training.
Mixed-gender support group for domestic violence survivors.
Call our SafetyLine at 415-333-4357 or email info@cuav.org. Leave a message with your contact information.
427 S Van Ness Ave
San Francisco, CA 94103
La Casa De Las Madres
La Casa offers a comprehensive continuum of support services. The adult and teen hotlines provide 24-hour crisis counseling resources and referrals. The Domestic Violence Response team strives to reduce trauma by offering victims on-site crisis assistance and legal support.
The emergency shelter program provides up to 8 weeks of safety and support to women and children fleeing violence. The drop-in counseling center provides domestic violence victims and survivors with practical and emotional support.
24-Hour Adult Crisis Line: 877-503-1850
24-Hour Teen Crisis Line: 877-923-0700.
24-Hour Text Crisis Line: 415-200-3575.
1269 Howard St
San Francisco, CA 94103
Saint Vincent de Paul Society—Riley Center
Saint Vincent de Paul Society has 2 programs:
The Rosalie House provides emergency shelter and supportive services for battered women and their children, including individual and group counseling, case management services, parenting groups, employment referrals, and a children's program.
The Brennan House provides transitional housing and supportive services for battered women and their children.
24-Hour Crisis Line: 415-255-0165
1175 Howard Street
San Francisco, CA 94103
Woman, Inc.
Woman, Inc has a crisis line for survivors of domestic violence. Call for crisis management, group and individual therapy, referrals, and support groups.
Services in English and Spanish.
24-Hour Crisis Line: 415-864-4722
Toll free 24/7 Support Line / Linea de Apoyo Gratuita 24-horas: 877-384-3578
26 Boardman Place
San Francisco, CA 94103
SF Police Department Special Victim's Unit
On-call team is active 24 hours, 7 days a week.
Call 415-553-9225.
Family and Children's Services (FCS) Hotline
If you suspect a child is being harmed, report or consult with protective services social worker.
Call 800-856-5553 anytime.
Anyone can make a confidential report of suspected child abuse, neglect, or exploitation. Be prepared to provide the child's name, address, approximate age, and situation.
If a child is in immediate danger, call 911.
Adult Protective Services (APS) Hotline
Anyone can make a confidential or anonymous report if they suspect that an older adult or a person with a disability who lives in San Francisco is experiencing abuse or self-neglect.
To report neglect or abuse, call:
415-355-6700 anytime
800-814-0009 anytime
Reports that do not involve physical abuse or require immediate attention can also be made online at ReportToAPS.org
SF Department on the Status of Women
Resources on Family and Relationship Stress During COVID-19
Resources on Gender-Based Violence During COVID-19
Full Transcription:
Delia Ginorio 0:01
So many people change. And I've seen people not change, right? And the day that I either working with a survivor or working with an offender, and I look at that person and I say, okay, she's he or she's never going to heal or he or she's never going to stop harming or that. That's the day that I need to walk away, right? Because even folks that I thought, oh my god, they're never going to get it. They're never going to change. They're my co-workers today.
Lisa Danylchuk 0:31
Hello, and welcome to the How We Can Heal podcast. My name is Lisa Danychuck, and I created this podcast to share deep conversations that encouraged us to move through life's toughest circumstances. Let's get talking about how we can heal.
Lisa Danylchuk 0:49
Hey, this is for my mental health professionals and Yogi's out there. As you may know, I've been teaching about how to incorporate yoga practices into trauma recovery for a long time now. And in 2015, I brought those teachings online and created the Yoga for Trauma Online Training Program. The program runs just a few times a year and is an amazing place to learn how to bring yoga and trauma work together in a skillful and grounded way. The community connects helpers and healers from all over the world who are deeply invested in trauma-informed yoga. You can find out all about it at howwecanheal.com/y4t. That's howwecanheal.com backslash, the letter Y the number four, and the letter T. Make sure to sign up for the waitlist to be the first to know when enrollment opens next. All right, welcome, Delia. Thanks so much for joining me for coming to the show today.
Delia Ginorio 1:44
Thank you. I'm so honored to be here.
Lisa Danylchuk 1:46
Yeah, I'm super excited to talk more about your work, I think you do really important work. And you're serving people right here in the San Francisco Bay area and you've been doing that for quite a long time. So I'm just curious if you could tell us a little bit about what you do and how you got into it.
Delia Ginorio 2:01
Okay, well, the last place that I thought I'd be working would be the San Francisco Sheriff's Department, that was not a goal, that was not a dream. That was not a career path. But ultimately, I was going to school to I thought, you know, to become a therapist, that was my interest in because I wanted to either help abused women abused children, or abused animals. And the more and I was working for a managed care company with it through an employee assistance program. And I got really frustrated myself, you know, as an admin person starting out, but then also working closely with our counselors or therapists who were providing services through the Employee Assistance Program. And just, you know, the way the managed care work is that we could only give the clients that came to us for support, one to three sessions, maybe five sessions, oh, and as a survivor, myself, who, you know, I, I just turned 61. And I have felt like I've had 150 years of therapeutic therapy one way or another, what the heck can you do one to three sessions. It took me a year, to build a relationship or trust, just to even start talking with my therapist.
Lisa Danylchuk 3:27
100% a year baseline just to start to build trust.
Delia Ginorio 3:33
To start to build trust, especially as a trauma survivor, right. And so, I was really frustrated with the system. And it was even getting worse at the time that I was doing. So I've been doing this now for 30 years. And so it was even at that time when there were even becoming more restrictions. And, you know, the therapists are getting, you know, frustrated. And, and so, I ended up really thinking about my career path and what I wanted to do. And it was just by chance that I ran into an organization through, you know, somebody else that I knew, that was participating in, and he and he himself was going through a program called Manalive, which was Men Allied Nationally Against Living in Violent Environments. And so in, in learning more about that, I was like wow, this is really interesting. And I always knew that there was something, you know, through all my, I did do a lot of therapy. You know, and I really supported a lot of different types of, you know, therapy if it's individual. If it's a group. But I never looked at it and I wasn't approaching it as violence as a social issue. And so the more I learned about that, and also the some of the people that flunked all the people that harmed me were family. So, you know, and I said, you get in that state that you're confused about your you love your family, but then you understand what your family has done. And then you look back, and it's just, you know, and you want accountability. But you also want restoration. You just want it, you know, this is all this whole world. And very confusing. And when I got into, and so then I just decided through, because of what I was experiencing through the managed care, and then with the survivors and everything, I didn't feel at that point in my career that I wanted to do it in an individual way, one on one. It felt like my calling was more of a global, more community. And then, and then some other tragic stuff had happened in my life, and I had to step out of school. And then I started working for an organization. Then I started actually, I got hired on as the administrative executor for Manalive because they were just now they got a big contract from the San Francisco Sheriff's Department to start a program called Resolve To Stop the Violence Program. And they and the Founder, Hamish Sinclair didn't have a full nonprofit setup. He had a nonprofit, but not the office. So he kind of stole me away from the corporate world. And that direction, I was just fascinated with the curriculum with the theories, and just the accountability. And I didn't understand at that time, what was happening. Why I was so drawn to this and makes perfect sense now. But at the time really understand. But it just felt like it was that piece that I was missing from everything else that I had done as part in my healing. And so I started there. And then from there, working with men who have harmed women, primarily, turning their lives around going into jail and helping other men supporting other men to stop their violence. And then I was there for a couple of years, and then I was hired on by the sheriff's department to run the Survivor Restoration Program because that part of it was growing. And through that, I think what really drew me in was restorative justice. Yeah, as I had no clue what it was, I felt it I kind of knew what I needed, and what I felt that in order to to do my own healing and to understand it was so complex, and then it really got it that yes, we need to provide severe services for our survivors and our victims. And we need to provide services for the people who have been harmed, along with 100% accountability, then also educate the community on both. And so it just, it just felt right, and Sunny Schwartz, who was my mentor, and who was over programs at the time. She's the one that hired me for the position to grow the survivor piece of the program because we had a really strong offender or person harmed program in the jail and we had some survivor services. But we're working for a real True Restorative Justice Program. You know, it was my job to make sure that there were equal services and equal voices. Where we actually primary use survivor voices in, you know, part of the development of RCP. The development of the Survivor Program, and, you know, bringing it out. And that's what I did. So the Survivor Program, I'm going to just let me back up just a little bit. I mean, what ultimately brought me to this work. And I just shared that I had recently come back from Puerto Rico, and that was to celebrate my 61st birthday. My goal was to get there when I was 60. But we were in COVID, quarantine, and couldn't do it. To really honor my mom, who was from Ponce, and my mom was killed on my birthday. On my seventh birthday. So she went out to get my birthday cake when I was turning seven. And she never returned home. So that left, you know, and then my life obviously changed dramatically from then. What I didn't know, at the time because I was young, but I have, you know, of course, through therapy, lots of recalled memories and everything. It was never proven. But I know for a fact that it was my father that did it. You know, and there was someone else that supported that. There were two people that were involved in that. And I won't say the other person's name at the time my father has passed away. The person hasn't so. And so I do this work in honor of my mom. And the complexity of it. And I'm very honest about this. You know, I took care of my father the last 15 years of his life. And a lot of people don't understand that. But there's so much complexity to self-healing therapy. Forgiveness, not for that person, but for yourself. Understanding family history, family, a mental health issues. I've never, you know, excused my father for what I mean, he never admitted it, you know, but I know because I am the whole, I'm a holder of a lot of information from my youth. And so I knew a lot of things. And so, you know, in, and that's why this work, to me, it comes with so much passion, but equally, you know, and, you know, in looking back to, you know, part of my trauma wasn't just the murder of my mom, it was just everything that happened after that, too, you know, being raised in a very abusive home with my abusive stepmother once my dad remarried. It was horrible. I mean, I left home when I was 15. And been on my own since then. You know, and so, you know, and then a multiple of things that happened throughout my childhood, you know, that led me to, you know, along with. So let's just say my focus is, you know, abuse women, abused children, and abused animals. And, you know, my passion for it all is, you know, in healing?
Lisa Danylchuk 11:45
I was just gonna say, again, so see how personal it is, but also how systemic, everything you're talking about is. Right? There's this very personal element of violence and how that's impacted your life. You know, your life trajectory from when you're seven, maybe even before in a very serious way. And then there's what I think is unique in what you're describing personally, in the work that you do is this perspective that includes who we might call the perpetrator or the person who's inflicting the violence, the person who's causing the harm. And so that, that, to me stands out, not only are you doing that, and work, which I think, you know, I know a lot of therapists and people are like, oh, I want to work with victims, and I want to support victims. And not a lot of people want to go work with people who are sex offenders are perpetrating violence or have committed homicide, right? A lot of the way we work systemically just kind of puts those people off in a corner and, and that it doesn't have a restorative justice, it doesn't have a healing component. But what I hear from you is addressing that, which I think can be really challenging, it's probably even more challenging, in certain ways than working with victims of violence. And then also to be doing that in your, in your personal life to care for your father for the last 15 years, right? To hold this information. It's a lot, but there's, like, I hear as you're talking, I'm like, that's either a lot of therapy or a lot of wisdom or like a why wise like you're a real old soul you're like because I just think it's that's really and I understand why that's really challenging for a lot of people. So I wonder, and I know you're about to say something else. So if there's a thought you want to finish, please do. But I also wonder like, if there's anything you can share about like, how, how do we get there? Or how in your work? Do you support other people I know, you know, you manage other folks professionally or working with a nonprofit? How do we support providers support each other in holding that space where, where I really believe in? I think we share this like that's where the healing actually happens. If we just push some people to the side and say, oh, you did something bad. And we're just going to put you to the side and forget about you. Well, you know, if we put them in jail, or whatever happens societally, well, then they end up coming back and doing it again and harming more people. And then the cycle just continues. So how do we interrupt those cycles? Do you have any thoughts on that?
Delia Ginorio 14:20
Yeah. Well, I mean, the hardest thing for people to understand is that a lot of times victims become perpetrators. Yes. That's why the the the resources and support for survivors and victims are so critical, and that's why we do survivor impact so that they can come back and share their stories. They can be heard, they can be validated, they can be understood and get continued to get services, right? Because, well, I mean, I easily could be in prison right now. I was a very angry young woman. I was waiting for somebody. I wasn't a bully. I wasn't looking for trouble, but I had so much built inside of me that all you have to do, I would just like walk around because just someone just touch me wrong, just, you know, touch me, and I'm just going to go off. And I did. I mean, that happened twice. And that's when I realized something I went from I would go from 0 to 1000. You know, and yeah, the two girls that I harmed, you know, were bullies. But it was the way that I went from 0 to 1000. Like, I felt like I could kill somebody, right. And it scared me. I had so much hurt, rage, anger, shame inside of me. And, you know, and I talked about this when I'm on different panels. When I got into therapy I was suicidal for five years. Just like, and it wasn't the fact that I learned it. And it was so critical, you know, that you also choose you really screen and find the therapist that is going to work with you and really understand you and have that connection with. And don't be afraid to say, You know what, this isn't working for me, I need to find someone else. Yeah, but find someone else there is someone else out there. Right. And that understands, and that can give you that support. But it wasn't that I wanted to die. I just didn't want to live with the shame, and the rage and the hate, and I was just tired. And I went into therapy when I was 19 years old. And, I'm 61. Nobody was going to therapy. If you went to therapy, you're crazy. I think you're crazy if you don't do it now. But none of my friends. And everybody saw me as Delia happy, you know. I mean, that was all a facade inside. I was exhausted. I was tired of life at 19. And I'm just like, I'm tired. And then the more I found out, and how messed up my family was in therapy, it was just so traumatic. You know, it's like, that's not normal. That's not normal. That's not normal. So in order to do this work that I've been doing for 30 years, I had to challenge my whole belief system, right? Not only what my family put on me, but what society put on me, right. And that's where the Manalive really helped me in that sense, challenging what we call the Male Role, Belief System, right? And on what boys are taught. What girls are taught. How society plays it, and how we teach our young men to be violent. And when they are, we put them in jail. How we teach our girls to be in a certain role. And so I had to challenge everything I was taught, right? And then also, you know, doing being open to not just doing one on one therapy. Then when you know, because my poor therapist at one time when they want me to go to an incest survivor group. And I'm like, why? I don't get that. I really didn't get it. I got it now. But even though I said, well my dad never, my dad never did anything to me. My dad, you know, was cuckoo crazy in other things I go, but my dad never was inappropriate with me like that. Right? I would say it. And he's like, No. So it's a longer story. But the things that happened around me. Yeah. And I didn't understand that I didn't have to be in a physical relationship with him to be an incest survivor. There's an emotional incest. There's other things that had gone on that was not okay for 7, 8, 9, 10 year old to be dealing with. Other things that happened in the home that I knew was happening. Right. So. So being open to that doing individual groups, I mean, doing group therapy for whatever you need, doing one on ones continued. The only way I could have done it is also seeing that healing is a journey, right? It's going to be lifelong, lifelong for me, always working on what triggered me and taking responsibility. If you're going to do this work working with victims or offenders or any, you have to take responsibility for your own triggers. It's nobody else's responsibility. Right? And to work through that and understand what your limits are. For instance, I'm probably the only one in the sheriff's department that works equally in both worlds of providing services for survivors and providing services for offenders. Some of my staff, you know, I have staff and both are only okay and can only work with offenders. Some can and when we work with survivors. Some can crossover a little bit. Right. And that's okay know what your limits are just like my limit which I found out. I absolutely cannot work with animal abuse. I don't care if I have 150 more years of therapy. I can't do it. That is one thing, you know, I mean, I can even work with, you know, abuse children, or, you know, any. But for some reason, there's a whole different level for me with animals. And so when I'm clear with that, and so when my case managers bring me a case, and there was animal abuse in it, and I'm like, okay, I'll do as much management with them and support I can, and then I'll transfer it over to someone else to support or do, you know, and continue. Whether it's dance. Whether it's creative writing, yoga, meditation, you know, anything because a lot of people think that they don't include that in their self-care or are part of therapy, right? Creative arts. Telling your story. And then in this field, what has helped me stay sane, because I've, you know, doing it for a long time, and I've had intense cases. I've had levels of accountability, that have been really hard to hear from, from people being accountable for what they did to victims, you know, sharing our stories, to have also had to have my clients murdered in my career. That was, you know, devastating and having to sit through court processes that brought up a lot of stuff from, you know, my own personal stuff. Yeah, I think I like I haven't been in therapy, like when I went there with since 19 until 61. But there's, you know, there's been years and I wouldn't, you know, and I've been fortunate that I've had my same therapist, you know, I've had two therapists, I'm just grateful because I don't have to relive everything and just call them like maybe, you know, do think they'll be connected to that? And I'm like, oh, my God, you're right.
Lisa Danylchuk 21:37
When they know you so well, they can just be like, well, you normally would react this way. So since you're reacting this way, that tells me something else is happening, like thank you, I don't have to spend 10 years explaining myself to you.
Delia Ginorio 21:49
And then have that relationship with your, you know, your support person, whoever it is, to you accountable. And just like, Delia, now, you know that one of your tools is, you know, one of your defense tools is being passive-aggressive. Do you think you may be using them? I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm doing that, right? To be accountable. To really do that. And that's what I see the most, that's harmful in our field, in general, is people get into this work without doing their own.
Lisa Danylchuk 22:17
Yeah.
Delia Ginorio 22:18
And they're supporting other people to do what they're supposed to do, but they're not doing what they need to do. That's my biggest struggle with everybody that I've worked with, you know, in any organization, you know, because I would go to an organization of a team of beautiful women, and there's all this infighting. And I'm like, you know, so to dissect that, to support them to understand, you know, how important our own work is. And I even had a case manager come. And she was working with offenders. And she really wanted to work with survivors. And she worked with me for a year. And then we both came to the conclusion that she just didn't understand that how much of a victim and a survivor she was herself. So she stepped away and do some work. And then she also realized that she actually worked better with offenders.
Lisa Danylchuk 23:09
Interesting. Yeah.
Delia Ginorio 23:09
And just really, you know, do that. And in this work, it's really important, you know, to self-care, obviously, because I've seen so many people, we lose some great, amazing, both men and women, due to, you know, just burnout. And just not taking care of themselves. I'm going to fix everything, I'm going to save the world. And I was started there too, up to thinking, you know, oh, my God, I have all this great information, you guys just need to take it and in realizing that if. In my whole career, if I've just helped one person that one person has maybe you know, 50 to 100, or 200 people in their life. You know, it's not my job to fix. It's just my job to hold a safe space, to provide information, and share my experience. What worked for me, may not work for them. And in so many of the field of people helping other people with trauma, I mean, it's changed, but it's not, you know, me, and I'm a rape survivor. It's like me as a rape survivor may need some of the same things as someone else. But I may need some very different things. So don't assume that just because you are a rape survivor and I'm a rape survivor, we're the same path in our healing because we're not. Someone comes in shares something, it may be a similar experience that I've had. That's my experience and my healing process and my resources may be very different from them.
Lisa Danylchuk 24:48
Yeah, I think this piece is so important because there's, in order to do this type of work, most people have some sort of personal experience or relationships, some sort of insight into it. You know, I saw it in my family or it happens to me or I see it, I saw it next door, whatever. And then there's a personal relationship to it. And if we don't acknowledge that and work with it, and if we also don't acknowledge and work with other people to learn, oh, this was my experience, that's your experience. Then we can either just start enacting all of our, you know, sort of wounds or things that we don't understand and working those out and in the workplace, or in these relationships that are intended to be healing. Or we can just project right, like, I know, because I figured it out, because this is what worked for me, or this is what helped my family. And then we can also, I think, to try to cope with or avoid the level of pain that these things entail, go to the like, savior complex, I'm going to fix this, it's going to be all better. I mean, I remember working with commercial sexual exploitation in Oakland and realizing like, I'm going to live and die, and this is going to be an issue, like, I'm not, I could pour my whole life into this work. And, and just like, to your point, the relationship with these 20 young people matters and is important. But if I come in thinking, you know, I'm this is I'm going to make this huge impact, right? And then you really come up against the systemic nature of the problem and the layers of intergenerational violence and harm, and the depth of work that like, even within one individual, let alone family, let alone communities is at play. Like looking at that. And you're like, okay, it's actually then okay for me to leave work and, like, do something nice for myself. And, you know, practice the opposite of violence towards myself, towards the people I work with. And like, just continue to chew on some of this, but also to figure out like, what's the right amount expectation wise? Because I think if you have that expectation, I'm gonna change the world. Yes, you are in those ways that you described, you hope that one person they know, they're connected to 150 people who are connected to another 150 people, and there's definitely an impact there. But if we're expecting, like an on and off switch, it's just not the way it works.
Delia Ginorio 27:12
No, no, no. And it took me a while, you know, in my career early on to really get that, right. I remember walking into the jail one day, and you know, because I think a month earlier, this guy was getting down and he comes up to me, he's like, you know, I'm on track. I'm, like, good for you. So I walk into the pod and he's back, right. And, you know, he's back in and I just, you know, one of my other co-workers who I love dearly, you know, he's just he saw my shoulder just go like ugh, because I had such high hopes for this kid, right? And I'm just like, so then he comes up to me. And he goes, Dad, I know, you're sad. I know. You're, you know, I'm here he goes, but he goes, but he goes, like, because not to minimize it. And I told him, don't minimize it as back then when, you know, marijuana wasn't legal. He goes, I got it first, you know, a small amount of this and this, right. And I first thing I tell him, I go, don't minimize it. You're here, because yeah, but I didn't, you know, I didn't hurt anybody. I didn't rob anybody. I didn't do it to do it. Right. And there's truth to that. And so then, you know, then I went to my co-worker, and he goes, Delia, he goes, this is part of the process. Here's the thing. Here's the key thing. When he got arrested, he asked to come back into RSVP. He asked to continue learning what he didn't get, you know, and I'm like, okay, you know, you're right. He came into RSVP kicking and screaming the first time he was there. Now, he wants back for the information. And yeah, so it was those kinds of things, you know.
Lisa Danylchuk 28:50
People talk about recidivism, how sometimes people actually do something to come back so they can get the services or the care that they're getting internally, right. I mean, I think that happens to I don't know, again, I don't want to minimize or make excuses. But sometimes there's some of that at play consciously, unconsciously. It's like, well, at least I have relationships there or, you know, for someone to see you and have that response. Like, I know, you're disappointed. Like, that's, that's almost like this repair hunting or something, right. Like, that's some deep trust and relationship for someone to already know that you care about them have a certain hope or expectation, right, want them to be doing well. Like there's so much just in that little snippet of conversation there.
Delia Ginorio 29:31
And it's, you know, it was so important, and that's why I do appreciate the sort of justice and the way that we do the work in RSVP, for instance, you know, I was doing this group and we're talking about, you know, violence and children and everything and, you know, this one guy in my group, you know, and he said, I don't get it today, you know, he goes, you know, the, you know, the kids get away with this and the parents don't do anything and, you know, when I was a kid, you know, my dad took out the belt and he whooped me, you know, and he did this and he did that, right? And he goes, he didn't stamp on that right now, and I'm sitting there, you know, and I'm just letting him listen. Right. And, and, and he goes in, he goes, and he goes, I stole a popsicle from a store. And my dad, you know, just he goes, he beat me. He goes, we didn't get away with stuff, right? So once everything's done, I said, so you're in here for robbery? How did that work? How did that parenting and how did those whoopings work for you? Because apparently, I mean, I didn't say it like this. But I mean, apparently, it didn't. Right. And so I just kind of pose that question. And so the other men would give him that kind of support. Just like, well, obviously, that didn't work. Violence didn't work, because you're here in jail for robbery, yet your dad beat the crap out of you when you're a child for stealing a popsicle? Maybe if he handled it a different way, you know, to hold you accountable for what you did, or however, you know, so obviously, violence isn't the answer, you know, hitting isn't the answer. So just, you know, doing stuff like that, you know, and, you know, and it is it, it's hard, especially because I do trainings, you know, around the country, and I do you know, different things, and a lot of people don't want to hear, you know, when I'm done, they'll be like, okay, now I get it, but when I first started out, and like I tell them I go, I've been in the jails for like, 30 years now. There's not one person, male or female that I've ever met, that hasn't been a victim of something in my work, right? That doesn't give them permission to turn around and hurt other people, because hurt people hurt people. But it's like, and sometimes we're all of us are one decision, one bad decision away from landing up in orange, whether it's drunk driving, you know, deciding yet to hit somebody, you know, to understand that and do the pre-work not to do those things, but also to have some understanding that some empathy, you know, that there are folks in there that are victims, you know, especially when, you know, because I'm over at woman services, and, you know, are incarcerated women, you know, and it's really sad. There are a lot of women are in there behind crimes behind doing crimes for men, right. And look at their history of, you know, sexual child abuse, you know, you know, just everything, you know, trafficking, as to why you know, that they've landed in jail. So, in the hardest population for me to work with, I mean, it's easier, from me working with violent men, when people don't understand that, because my boundaries are really clear. I don't have a hard time at all holding men accountable. You know, I'm very honest, I have a harder time with women, you know, I'll still do it. But the hardest population for me to work with is young women, you know, under the age of 18, because I, you know, I just, you know, the level of victimization that I see and why they're doing the things, it's a really, in, they're very angry, and I was there, right, and I, I feel blessed and grateful that I had an opportunity to meet somebody in my life at 16, that helped me take in a different direction, but I could have met somebody that took me in a completely. I was trying to go in a completely different direction.
Lisa Danylchuk 33:36
Yeah. And those relationships are so powerful. And, you know, you're talking a lot about the way I hear it right through my, like, trauma therapist brain is all these, like dynamics and layers and cycles of violence, right? Like something happens. This, you know, person who's in jail now, you know, beat by his dad for stealing a popsicle. Like, there's, there are so many layers to how these things work. And those little choices we make like that one choice away from being an orange. Like, if you have experience of trauma in your background, or of being treated violently in your background, and you have like you were expressing earlier that rage or anger or shame inside and it all it takes is one person it could be can be out walking your dog and someone looks at your dog wrong or does something you know, and that's where it comes out, rather than it coming out in therapy or somewhere else. And there's a whole other conversation around access to those services. But I definitely hear and see as you're talking this pattern of intergenerational violence of, you know, needing to intercept that needing to have compassion for that needing to find a way to offer some healing there for it to shift. So I'm wondering in your work? What are those things that start to foster the healing? Does that come mostly from the person who's like, what do you see show up in the people you're serving that supports that healing? And then what do you provide? That supports? Because I also see this pattern. Once that happens with one person, like you said, Okay, I was 16, I could have gone this way. But you did it. Here you are 61. celebrating your birthday, honoring your mom, helping so many people, I think many more than one than the 150 that they're connected with. So like, what are some of the things that get us going in the direction personally, systemically, of like I was gonna say, perpetuating healing?
Delia Ginorio 35:42
Yeah. That's a, it's a lot. Because there's so many different dynamics that need to happen. You know, and I, and that's why I think we're sort of justice, it has been my tool and my savior, so to speak, in understanding and supporting others and myself. Because it's, it's not just one thing. It's the combination because of, you know, come from empathy and understanding and accountability, right. And because I can really be hard on you, and hold you accountable, and still have empathy for you. And even if I have a lot of deep empathy for you, and I believe in restorative justice, doesn't mean that you still don't need to go to jail. Right. And a lot of people don't understand that they'll either be called your restorative justice, why would you support someone still having to go to jail? Right, or, you know, your restorative justice, you know, you should be doing it this way. It's like, no, there is it's so complex. It's not even complex. It's just the understanding that I'm given, you know, give somebody an opportunity to heal the harm that they've caused, even if their victim or the person that they've hurt, doesn't want any part of the process, right? You can still. That's one part is that you can still support people who have harmed people to do their own healing and do their own work and give back to the community and repair the harm that they caused, even if their survivor victim wants nothing to do with them. Right. And the other part is giving a platform and support and an understanding and a lot of empathy, without blame to the survivors, to share their stories, to ask them what they need, and also to give them the services so that they don't repeat that generational violence also. So to understand, you know, how, sometimes, you know, obviously, you know, with domestic violence is a little trickier. Around, you know, restorative justice. But that doesn't mean it still can't be done, because we have speakers that come into our pod to talk to the men who are survivors of domestic violence. And those men in those pods are perpetrators of domestic violence. So they have to hear that's been one of the most healing processes is to bring the two in as you know, they're not direct victims and offenders, but to bring the person that has harmed people in those types of traumas, to the survivors, right. So we bring in, you know, moms and dads of murdered children. We bring in people who will ask people to drunk driving. We bring in young adults who grew up in homes where they witnessed domestic violence or substance abuse. And people who've had their homes robbed to rape survivors to actually share their story, and how it impacted them the full ripple effect of it wasn't just that you hurt me. You hurt me. I lost my job. I started drinking. You know, I lost my marriage. You know, men and women grieve differently. So when my our child was murdered, we lost our marriage, because he grieved this way. And she did this. And, you know, I mean, that whole ripple effect. No, you rob my house. And, you know, I had worked three jobs to try and get back to see my dying mom, and I couldn't, you know, just that whole thing that just like, oh, and it's really interesting because they will, it is so healing for a survivor, you know, to share their story and be heard. And then we process all that information after once the speaker leaves. And then it also shows that I have a mom, that's one of my speakers. You know, she's had four of her sons killed. And she's made a decision to come share her story so that other people don't have to go through it. So also, not only is it healing for her, but then also people who are using their own trauma as an excuse to hurt others that look at her and say, okay, she's lost four children. Four boys and she's making a choice not to continue the harm and hurting others. So I'm in here because you know, some, you know, guys, here and there because they are angry because their younger brother got killed or you know, and that's what's fueling even more of their anger and hate and all of a sudden and stuff, to reeling it back. So I think what the start of, you know, is really doing your own work gaining, understanding empathy, not sympathy, literally put yourself in other people's shoes, the big difference between feeling sorry for somebody, and standing beside them trying to understand, you know, what they're going through. And then accountability. Because in order for someone who has been harmed to start moving forward, they can't make any excuses. You know, they're meant no excuses. Like, I can sit here and say, oh, yeah, my dad killed my mom. I was, you know, I'm a rape survivor. I saw this, I did this, but my childhood sucked, and that gives me permission to turn around and hurt other people? No, it doesn't.
Lisa Danylchuk 41:06
Yeah. It's the accountability piece. I also feel like there's an element in that when you're talking about the mother who lost four sons when you talk about your own experiences. I think there's an element of being able to, I'm just going to say, like, stay open in the face of that much pain or digest or metabolize that much pain, because what I see often is, someone's in pain, they displace it. And that's what keeps the cycle going. Like I'm so angry, like, you were saying, someone hits you on the shoulder, you pop off, you just download all of that pain, negativity, shame, oppression, whatever, like offloaded into the other person, this complete stranger who was you know, just walking their dog or whatever. And then that person, if they can't move through that manage that gets support with that will just pass it on. Right. So I see it often in that way of like, if we do go through something horrific and tragic, and we can stay open enough, and have enough support and connection to metabolize that, then we actually still feel we still feel that like we can keep feeling and we can keep feeling empathy for other people. We hear that story of the mom who lost four children, and we go, oh my God. What can I do? Can I support them, but if we're not connected to our own suffering, then we're also not going to connect to other people. So it's kind of like these two oversimplify two trajectories. One that just keeps perpetuating violence and another that actually perpetuates connection, love care. But with that one, with that one, there's sadness, loss, longing, having to feel the shame having to feel a move through the anger, and that stuff's not easy. That's where I feel like yeah like you said earlier, I love this, people used to be crazy for going to therapy. Now, I think you're crazy if you don't go to therapy because then you don't have space and support for all of those things that are just going to happen in any life. Right. And in any life, there's going to be those hard emotions.
Delia Ginorio 43:08
And, you know, it's so you know, I do a part of Survivor Impact in San Quentin, with the Insight Prison Project. And, you know, they've had some of the lifers, you know, that have really, you know, they've changed their lives, they're, you know, they're, they're pillars in the community of San Quentin, and they're doing restorative justice. And they'll come up to me and say, Delia, it was so much easier just being out in the yard, working out being mad, angry, hard when I opened up and I started doing this work. It's so much harder to understand the impact that I've had on so many people in my own family, my victim. And it, just, you know, and it is, and that's what, that's what really drew me to Manalive. Because, you know, I almost felt like that, because I was always afraid, I thought if I started crying, I would never stop. And if I started hurting, I would never stop hurting. So it was easier to stay angry. So I either had it was either angry or happy, angry or happy. I was never sad, right? And then I would start to feel the sadness. And so when you start, you know, supporting people. There's so many other feelings, rather than going straight to anger, but who doesn't, it's easier to be angry than deeply sad or hurt. So that's the and then and then all that gets all stuff. And that's when you know, comes out and all these other different ways, but also to when we talk about resources. You know, it's, you know, I feel grateful that I was able to, you know, and I give this to my ex-husband, you know, the most is that you know, when he came into my life at 16, he had a, you know, just a strong family and he was just a really, really, really great guy. And this really, you know, he was the first person that I shared my story with, and it even took a while. And, you know, it was the more I told him, I mean, he was just in disbelief. But the more I was around him, I was in disbelief. But this is what a family is? This is what you do? This is what's not okay? And then the more than that's when, you know, as I said, I got married last 19. And then within that year, I said, whoa, something's wrong here, I needed therapy. And so, you know, in grateful that I have the resources, even at that young age, to start that process, because I did feel like a danger to others and myself, because of all the stuff that was inside me. And to get to a point where I am today, you know, especially in the last two years of this crazy world, in the heart, you know, like, our job was even harder and working with domestic violence and trauma and everything in the pandemic. It's just the switch of, I just feel like the the more hate that was out there. The more anger that was out there, I just felt like, for me, it was just that the kinder I felt I needed to be. I just felt like I just, the more that was coming at me or anybody else, I just felt like, I just had to be kinder work on being kinder, instead of being, you know, angry. But that takes a lot of, you know, as I said, a lot of work and, you know, my strongest advice to, you know, support to anybody that's in this field, any kind of therapeutic field as a provider. You know, you just continue your own work, always challenge your own thinking, challenge your own belief systems. Be honest about your judgments and your precedent, you know, prejudices. And, you know, what, because we're always growing, learning to change. And even, you know, I mean, even I was, you know, as in Puerto Rico, and, you know, some of my cousins, it's like, well, even, even with all the work I've done, I made some assumptions out there. Right. And I'm not, you know, it's like, I'm not perfect. And, you know, like, I just talk about it, you know, it's just like, wow, I've just, like assumed this, things I didn't know. And just took for granted, and other people's struggles. And to really kind of understand, even me, even even as a survivor, as a Latina, you know, as a woman, that I still have, you know, many privileges that others don't know, right, even me. So, yeah, to continue doing the work and self-care. And I always, in my training when I'm working with books, and I'll say just have at least two people that are connected to this work at all, as best friends or friends don't know anything about violence, or sort of justice, trauma, nothing so that when you start talking to everybody, like, you got five minutes to talk about anything else, right?
Lisa Danylchuk 47:40
Or they're in this completely different world. Like I think of some of my friends that fit that bill. I have plenty of therapist friends. I love them. I have friends that work in tech, or, you know, corporate America or something. And, you know, sometimes they're telling a story about corporate America, and I'm like, this is all about trauma. But then other times there, there's just this different world, right? Like we I think we can kind of especially as we get more specialized and work, we just end up in these little pockets. And it's nice to be able to take a trip to a different world, right? I have a lot of friends, like, at the gym, where I work and just totally different backgrounds, experiences, like let me just step into your world of like, working with insurance for a moment, and like, what's your daily life like? It's different from mine, right? It's like some relief in that. And then you can, the thing that's really interesting, you know, I do a lot of yoga stuff, it's like, it actually helps you kind of get present to what's happening right now. Because then you're like, oh, okay, we're out for tacos and it's Friday afternoon, rather than thinking of generations of violence, or wherever your brain was, you know, an hour before you can shift to like, oh, it's okay for us to just like, laugh and joke here. Or we can go into different territories. We don't always have to live in this place of how, you know, how do I solve these really intense problems that, you know, will contribute to for sure. But, you know, like, I was saying earlier that, that recognition, like, this isn't something that I'm going to find the switch for. And then we'll have world peace.
Delia Ginorio 49:06
And also finding a balance of being able to be really deep in this world, and had been able to be in the world when you also have very strong political views or you don't believe in supporting any type of violence, then, you know, your friends want to go see this one movie and you're like, like, no, I can't do it.
Lisa Danylchuk 49:27
Nope.
Delia Ginorio 49:32
They're not in my world. So I support that, you know, I can't support who's in the movie. I can't support what the movies about, you know, and things like that. Or if I go over families homes, and you know, they have their kids playing those violent video games, you know, okay, this isn't my home. And how do I find that balance of not going in there? Like, oh my god, do you know what you're doing to your kids? Or versus just saying, you know, I'm, you know, find a way of not judging but just educating, you know. There's always that balance. And then sometimes I just like, you know, have the completely turn off. I'll walk into a grocery store and I'll hear is, you know, a mom talking to her kid or someone like, oh my god, you know, to have to, you know, kind of like, chill out sometimes, you know, and then, you know, and just being open. And, you know, I tell my staff this all the time. When I first came into the field, you know, I started in this learning in this area, and then it went like this, this is, so the more that I learned, the more that I taught myself. And the more trainings I went to, the less I knew because everything led to something more, right. TV led to, you know, the impact on the children. Then how to have a correlation between victims, substance abuse, you know, to, you know, their trauma to then, you know, rate, then, you know, violence, general violence, just just like the the cycle.
Lisa Danylchuk 50:59
Commercial sexual exploitation, right, it just keeps going. Yeah.
Delia Ginorio 51:04
Abuse of power, and just was just like, I couldn't learn enough. So, but the most important, you know, then same sex violence, right. And so, you know, I said our job, we are experts in, you know, our domestic violence, and I feel like I'm excellent at that. And restorative justice and a few other little things. But there's a lot that I know a little bit, but what I know enough is who to refer them too. Yes. Oh, there's just too much. I'm not an expert in A, B, C, D, E, F, but there's so many letters to the alphabet, I got maybe A, B, and C, but then, but I'm an expert in finding out resources. And I'm an expert in saying, you know, what? Well, I don't know. But I know, somebody who does. And never be afraid as a professional in this field. You know, just just, you know, even when you're doing trainings, and presentations, that's what took the fear, because I was terrified, at first in my career, to do trainings and stuff. Because I would tell my mentor, Sunny, well, what if I don't know? Okay, so you don't know it all? You don't know, it's okay to say, you know, what, no one's asked me that before. Let me go find out and get back to you. And know we'll both know. Yeah, leave it at that. But so many people get stuck, you know, in their ego, and not, you know, be open to learning or learning from others. And just being humble and saying, wow, you know, I'm, I know all this stuff. But I don't even know, you know that not, but I'll find out for you. So that's another piece.
Lisa Danylchuk 52:31
And the more you learn, as you said, you start with this small little component, and then it grows, it grows, it grows. But the more you learn, the more you learn that you don't know, at the same time. And so hopefully, then at that time, you can also go Oh, I know someone to connect you with for that. But sometimes it's even like, we don't have that program yet. Like that doesn't exist. And so we can grow in that direction
Delia Ginorio 52:51
What happened before the pandemic, because I was really, you know, and hopefully I'll have time to pick it up later. And that there wasn't a space for families like their loved one committed a horrible crime, either murdered somebody or did horrific stuff. They love this person, this person may be in prison for life, and they're horrified at what their loved one did. But they still love their loved ones. I mean, who better person to deal with that kind of stuff than me? Right? Is this like, yeah, I still loved my dad. Even knowing the things that he did ended up that whole process of dealing with that, and how you, you know, like, what do you do with that? And so I was researching this know where to send these families, you know, of either a wife or a mother or father or someone that had a child or a family member, brother, you know, someone their partner that that did something horrific, and that they're lumped in to being a horrible person to because they were they chose to be with somebody that did something so horrible. So that there's no there's no support for folks that are going through that.
Lisa Danylchuk 54:05
So once we recognize that, that's when we can start to go okay, well, what's close enough to that? How do we connect, you know, who wants to build that program? Like that's, I think, important, right? It's, I think it's important we get out there and keep doing our own work. And then also, when it's time to teach lead, share what you know, without having to know everything, like keep the questions moving forward. That's how we all grow. I mean, I know for myself, spending years presenting about yoga and trauma I learned so much from the questions people ask. You give presentation number one, somebody asked like, the really important pivotal question becomes important, becomes a part of presentation number, like 643 down the line, right? Like, it just integrates in. And so it's this way of any type of work or information sharing or you know, workshopping, becoming a little more collective, right? It's like, okay, we're all a part of this process, and we're all learning together rather than Is this sort of like, expert student, you know, the teacher-student relationship that I think we're raised in. So I know we got to start to wrap up. And I'm really curious, especially given the depth of your personal experience and the work that you do, and, you know, working in this way, the term that keeps coming up for me is intercepting violence. Like you're really trying to intercept it, like, with care with presence with understanding and with a space to hold all of the complex emotions, all of the like messy stuff that comes up in there that we don't really have easy places to put in the world. So I'm curious as you're doing all of that work, what gives you hope, just for.
Delia Ginorio 55:41
Well, so here it is, the day I lose hope I need to quit my job. I've seen so many people change, and I've seen people not change, right? And the day that I either working with a survivor or working with an offender, and I look at that person, and I say, okay, she's he or she's never gonna heal, or he or she's never gonna stop harming that. That's the day that I need to walk away. Right? Because even folks that I thought, oh my god, they're never gonna get it, they're never gonna change. They're my co-workers today.
Lisa Danylchuk 56:16
Wow, yes, that's so powerful.
Delia Ginorio 56:19
Like, I've had, you know, a guy in my group, and he was such a complete jerk. And I'm like, Oh, my God, you know, and the thing is, is in here, you know, years later, he's my co-worker, and one of my trainers, right? So it's a roller coaster ride, definitely. But people are changing, I do people, you know, people change. And get, you know, and it's not our job, my job to judge who's it's my job, just to give the information, not make the assumption, because I have done that in the past, you know, and completely wrong, you know, and to give an example, you know, the the two men that murdered two of my victims, were the ones that came in, knew all the information, you know, how do you know, do this and this and they never got into trouble. And then, and here, you know, so that's an assumption that they, you know, we're getting the information they're using the tools, but they were just better at, you know, that the absorbing the information and repeating it versus taking it in, and using that information. And so, I see a lot of hope. I've, I've had, you know, survivors that couldn't even get out of bed, you know, that are on my staff. And I've seen offenders who I thought would never stop hurting people and themselves and are my co-workers today. And so I think that's part of the where the community, you know, needs to folks in the larger can understand that people can change, and there's a lot of judgment because they'll look at me to the whole day, you know, you had all this trauma, but you're not out there hurting people, I've been hurt. I'm not trying to hurt new people. So that's where the challenge is to get people to understand that everybody's different resources upbringings just in who you are, like, I have a sister, you know, that still struggles with all the stuff, you know. And so, you know, just I say, you know, cynicism is the biggest killer of our work. And, you know, losing hope. If you lose hope in supporting and doing others, then you need to take care of yourself and also find something else to do. You know, and because it's not easy work. Yeah, it's not easy. But I've seen some miracles, absolute miracles happen. And I'm not ready to give up on people.
Lisa Danylchuk 58:51
I love that. Thank you so much, Delia. So I know you mentioned a couple of nonprofits you've worked with, are there any specific resources or nonprofits you want to shout out to, that people can look into.
Delia Ginorio 59:02
So I will in I'll send you the information that you can add to the link. Community Works West in Oakland, has a lot of programs, both for survivors, restorative justice, and offenders and they do a lot of community healing through the Arts. And in a really funny when you talk about yoga meditation, but people don't understand is that you know, we ask people to, you know, stop violating, you know, get off drugs do this, do that, but we don't give them other resources on how to deal with the hurt and the pain. And we know we were the first program and RSVP to bring in you know, one of the first to bring in yoga, meditation, and acupuncture. And we still do it well, pre-pandemic you know, and people that you know, and like survivor community in and people in general, what going to jail and you're getting yoga meditation, they don't understand the full concept of we're trying to get people to get stay clean and sober. We're working on their trauma, so they don't read traumatized and hurt others, we're working on them subnet violence, we want them to get jobs and you know, blah, blah, blah. And if we don't take all this away, and not give them a healthier way, in dealing with everything, you know, and it's beautiful because then we'll have some of the men come out and then actually going to yoga, meditation as a community. So in Manalive. MEn Allied Nationally Living Against Violent Environments is another great nonprofit organization, you know, that provides services for men who offend. And then, you know, I'll give you the link to, you know, like our 800 numbers for any domestic violence, sexual assault numbers, because it's all inner, it's all intertwined. We're so blessed in San Francisco. We have a lot of support services, for healing, and, you know, moving forward in our lives.
Lisa Danylchuk 1:00:59
And one of the, if there is a silver lining, pandemic-wise, is that some of these offerings can be more online and more accessible. I mean, if people have an internet connection, if they have access to a computer, then they can drop in. Even watch a recording of a webinar or things like that. So I feel like there are a lot more resources that way. Yeah, I hope that some of the in-person stuff I think is, is slowly coming back in different ways. You know, we're still in unknown lands here.
Delia Ginorio 1:01:26
But I think it's the most, it's been hardest on a recovery field, and people who need community connection and people connection to stay clean and sober. I've seen a lapse in them in the past two years, the hardest on that, but that's getting back on track, but there are so much, so much you can get through now, because of what we've learned on doing the zooms and, and you know, being able to connect in a different way. And you know, and the connection with other people and being open and sharing is probably the most healing and rewarding way, in all areas to you know, enhance your own professional work and your personal work.
Lisa Danylchuk 1:02:04
Yeah. Well, thank you, again, so much for coming on the show, Delia, I'm really excited to share this with folks. And I really appreciate you sharing your personal experiences, your professional worldview, even I think I share a lot of that with you. And it's really nice to know, you're out there doing this work with other people, I think, like you said, there's often this sort of challenge of working with, you know, there's a challenge of intercepting violence. And I think a lot of times, we don't really know how to get in there in terms of trauma and insurance, but I feel like you and the people you're working with, like you're right in there doing that important, sometimes long term work.
Delia Ginorio 1:02:45
I just want to add, it's, I mean, the goal is because I forgot to talk about our charter high school that we, you know, we're.
Lisa Danylchuk 1:02:53
We're going to have to have you back, I know, we got a whole other like 12 other conversations that could come out of this one.
Delia Ginorio 1:02:59
First is prevention to I mean, you know, all the work inside the jails and everything, but bottom line is that we need to get to folks before they even get there. Yeah, right. That's why we started our five keys Charter High School with the education, you know, the first of its kind for, you know, adults and but just being out in the community, you know, with our children and families and just more education, more support. You know, before people end up in jail. Before they harm or, or even education for our survivors in empowerment without blame. So I mean, that's why I said, the more it is, it's just like.
Lisa Danylchuk 1:03:37
Unpack, the more you unpack, I would actually love to continue a conversation about prevention, too. That was like my whole master's program was. And when we call it the time risk and resilience prevention intervention. We were just looking at all those things. And a lot of it was trauma, and essentially intercepting trauma, intercepting violence and providing care where there's been neglect or harm, but I feel like that piece. Like there's a lot of hope in that piece, which is why I was so motivated by it and still am.
Delia Ginorio 1:04:06
Thank God, there's a lot more prevention happening these days.
Lisa Danylchuk 1:04:09
Yes. Yeah. And I think people are starting to get the value of it, because it's like, well, you can't measure what doesn't happen. You're like, but eventually, you can. It's just not immediate, right? But like, eventually, you can see trends.
Delia Ginorio 1:04:21
You can measure attitudes and beliefs and how people you know, because when we would first work with folks on okay, this happened, this happened, and they give you a scenario what they would do, and you'd be like, oh, right. And then once you've done all the work with them, and give them different opportunities, and allow them to feel and talk and share, and you're given that same scenario. And how to deal with it now. It's completely different.
Lisa Danylchuk 1:04:42
Totally different.
Delia Ginorio 1:04:44
Right, it's the different choices because it's just its different choices on how to deal with an incident.
Lisa Danylchuk 1:04:51
I love it. And I feel like I'm thinking of like my research-oriented, friends and colleagues and I'm like we get I know there's research happening and prevention, but more, please, more all the time. Thanks again, Delia. And yeah, I'd love to have you back on we can keep talking.
Delia Ginorio 1:05:06
All right.
Lisa Danylchuk 1:05:07
All right.
Delia Ginorio 1:05:08
I'll send you the information that you can share with everyone.
Lisa Danylchuk 1:05:11
Sounds great.
Delia Ginorio 1:05:13
Thank you.
Lisa Danylchuk 1:05:14
Bye bye.
Lisa Danylchuk 1:05:18
Thanks so much for listening. My hope is that you walk away from these episodes feeling supported, and like you have a place to come to find the hope and inspiration you need to take your next small step forward. I do want to make sure it's clear that this podcast isn't offering any prescriptions. It's not advice or any kind of diagnosis. Your decisions are in your hands, and we encourage you to consult with any relevant health care professionals you may need to support you through your unique path of healing. For more information and resources, please visit my website howwecanheal.com. There you'll find tons of helpful resources in the full transcript of each show. You can also click the podcast menu to submit requests for upcoming topics and guests. Before we wrap up, I want to send thanks to our guest today to Christine O'Donnell and Celine Baumgartner of Bright Sighted Podcasting, and to everyone who helps support this podcast directly and indirectly. Alex, thanks for taking the dogs out while I record. I'd also like to give a shout-out to my brother Matt. He passed away in 2002. He wrote this music and recorded it and it makes my heart so happy to share it with you now
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