Today on How We Can Heal Podcast, Lisa Danylchuk welcomes Kira Willey as she discusses how she incorporates music, yoga, and mindfulness for very young children. Kira has had over a decade-plus years of experience in music, mindfulness, and teaching kids. Today, Kira shares her story behind how she started on this path, how she perceives energy, and what for her mindfulness is and what mindfulness is not.
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Music – it's where I need to be
While working in a previous parent and child program, Kira spotted this ad about children's yoga training for teachers in the workplace. Admittedly, Kira wasn't 100% into it at that time. Nevertheless, by looking at the ad, Kira knew that it was something she would do. The training also didn't come cheap. Yet, Kira had a go with it anyway. Mentally, Kira already had some part of the thing planned out in her head. Once she gets the certificate, she was certain she'd incorporate music into her teaching.
Kira's love for music can be understood very easily in this interview. Bringing her guitar everywhere was not an issue for Kira. To her, 'it was like a crutch.' So she's very comfortable handling it. What she's not comfortable with, however, is being in a room with 25 six-year-olds. For Kira, music is so easy to love. It makes brains light up, and it influences everyone's energy. And even though there's science behind that, Kira believes you don't need Science to experience it.
About Kira Willey:
Kira Willey is the author of six children's mindfulness books: Peaceful Like a Panda, the Mindfulness Moments for Kids board book series, and the bestselling Breathe Like a Bear. Her books have been translated into 18 languages and sold more than 260,000 copies around the world.
As a kids' yoga and mindfulness expert with nearly two decades of teaching experience, Kira has spoken on the TEDx stage, trained thousands of kids' yoga teachers, and is the creator of Rockin' Yoga training and school programs, as well as her Rockin' Yoga membership, a thriving community of educators bringing mindful practices to children.
As a children's music artist, Kira has released six albums of yoga & mindfulness songs for kids, which have won Parents' Choice Gold and numerous other industry awards. Her songs have been streamed more than 35 million times, and her hits include "Colors," which was featured in a worldwide Dell ad campaign.
Kira is also the creator and host of two kids' TV programs, "Breathe With Me" and "Fireflies Yoga," which air on PBS affiliates nationwide.
Outline of the episode:
- [02:34] From sports to yoga
- [06:24] Kira Willey – on working in music, earning less, and still loving it
- [11:30] There's nothing better than creating with others
- [15:13] How did music, yoga, and teaching kids come about for Kira?
- [21:03] Songs for channeling scattered energy
- [26:09] Mindfulness doesn't have to be sitting on a cushion with a candlelit
- [31:40] Do you have time for mindfulness? You should!
- [35:52] Kira Willey – on working with parents
- [46:26] You can do almost anything that you're already doing—mindfully
- [48:47] What gives Kira Willey hope?
Resources:
Website: https://kirawilley.com/home
Kira is offering How We Can Heal listeners free children's mindfulness and music resources! Head here to grab all the goods:
https://kirawilley.com/healpodcast
30 Free Children's Mindfulness Exercises:
✰ A free download of Kira's entire Mindful Moments for Kids album (winner of Parents' Choice Gold!), which includes 30 one-minute mindfulness exercises designed to help children calm themselves down, release stress, and focus their attention
11 Pages of Printable Mindfulness Activities:
✰ Printable coloring, gratitude, and positive mindset activities based on Kira's bestselling books Breathe Like a Bear and Peaceful Like a Panda
Children's Mindfulness "Greatest Hits":
✰ A playlist of some of Kira's most loved songs to soothe and calm, perfect for quiet time or savasana
Get notified about Kira's Rockin' Yoga Membership right here:
https://kirawilley.com/membership
Full Transcript:
Today my guest is Kira Willey. Kira is the author of 6 children's mindfulness books including the best-selling, Breathe Like a Bear. Her books have been translated into 18 languages and have sold more than 260,000 copies around the world. As a kids yoga and mindfulness expert with two decades of teaching experience, Kira has spoken on Tedx stages, trained thousands of kids yoga teachers and supports educators bringing mindful practices to children through her Rockin Yoga membership. Kira is also a talented musician. She's released 6 albums of yoga and mindfulness songs for kids, but I also personally love them very much as an adult. She's also the creator and host of two kids TV programs, Read with Me and Fireflies Yoga, which air on PBS affiliates nationwide. Kira and I connect over our love of bringing social and emotional learning into schools. We're both big fans of prevention and early intervention and we share a passion for getting mindfulness and yoga tools into the hands of people who can use them most. Kira is also offering How We Can Heal listener’s free children's mindfulness in music resources. You can get those goods at kirawilley.com/healpodcast. That’s K-I-R-A-W-I-L-L-E-Y dot com backslash heal podcast. There you'll get access to 30 free children's mindfulness exercises, 11 pages of printable mindfulness activities, and tons of other special gifts. Let’s welcome Kira to the How We Can Heal podcast
Lisa Danylchuk 0:03
Hi, Kara, Willie, welcome to the show
Kira Willey 0:05
Hi Lisa, thank you for having me
Lisa Danylchuk 0:08
So good to have you here. Thanks for being here. And I see your, is that peaceful panda in the background right there?
Kira Willey 0:14
Peaceful Like a Panda baby. There she is.
Lisa Danylchuk 0:17
Peaceful like a panda. Yes. So I'm excited to talk with you today about all the wonderful things you create in the world yoga, music, books—how they all come together, and you know how those things can hopefully help people a little bit right now cause folks have been struggling. I don't know if you've noticed. There's some stuff going on in the world so let's just hear from you what got you into yoga that's something you and I both share.
Kira Willey 1:02
I got into yoga not until after college I actually had been a an athlete all my life, soccer track. I was a hurdler. And so sports was a huge part of my life. And I got to college and I was kind of like, huh, grownups don't do the hurdles. You know, this is it, I can't. I, you know, to be honest, I looked to yoga first as something to quote unquote, stay in shape. You know, like, that was it like, I went to my first yoga class. And I wish I could say that I fell madly in love with it knew it was gonna be my life's calling, but I didn't, I liked it. As you know, it was kind of it was a slow burn for me. You know, and I went back and I went back and it's slowly sort of seeped started to sort of seep into me the benefits and the transformation that that a yoga practice and mindfulness could have. So but you know, I'll be honest, I went, I went first for the completely physical benefits, you know, after a lifetime of athletics and but, you know, here I am, right, it definitely had its effect.
Lisa Danylchuk 1:12
Absolutely, I would say you're not alone in that story. A lot of folks are, you know, attracted to yoga or they go to it as part of a gym routine or something. And then the next thing and the next thing, something I hear a lot too is just that next thing next, you know, people get sort of pulled into yoga drawn into it. There's something about it. I didn't know you were an athlete. I used to play soccer too. And then you know, it kind of does fizzle out once you get to college if you're not going pro. It's, there’s not as many places to go but there's lots of yoga studios out there.
Kira Willey 2:18
It was a huge part of my life, I was captain of the team, you know, all American, all that kind of stuff. So it was a big, big deal for me. And, and quite a letdown when I kind of realized, you know, okay, that chapter of my life is over. So getting into yoga and again, like that slowburn ramping up and then growing to really love it filled a really a big place that, you know, needed to be filled and grew into other things.
Lisa Danylchuk 2:45
Were there any moments that you remember where you were like oh, oh, yeah, I'm really in this yoga now or like things that sort of pulled you deeper into it
Kira Willey 2:53
I had never had an experience of shavasana, you know, in my life, that was, you know, competitive, athletics is all go go go and discipline. And, right? And higher, faster, stronger, all that type of thing. So, to have somebody instruct me to lie down, and not move. And just, and literally just rest my body and rest, you know, that was like, I mean, at first, like, I think many people I was resistant. I was like, Well, I don't have time for this. What is it? You know, this isn't? Right. Yeah, this isn't helping me get a tighter butt, like, what are we doing here? So that was also a bit of a ramp up and a real learning experience for me to just, oh, okay, we're allowed to just rest, we're allowed to just rest, just be just breathe, you know, be with ourselves. Be with our thoughts. So that was a really different experience for me. But now, I think, like, maybe many people, my favorite part of the practice.
Lisa Danylchuk 4:00
Yes, and as you're talking, you said, just be and just breathe, which makes me think of one of my favorite songs of yours, which I've played and get stuck in my head in a beautiful way a number of times. It just, I feel like it captures something that, like you said, is sort of missing, especially in our development and our, you know, fast paced culture. We don't necessarily have a lot of time to just be and just breathe and you have this beautiful way of, like, it's almost like a lullaby a shavasana lullaby. I love that song so much. How did music become a part of your life? When did that start?
Kira Willey 4:33
I've been a lifelong musician. I started playing violin at age five. So I'm a classically trained violinist. And I've picked up other instruments along the way: guitar, mandolin, ukulele, and I always wrote little, you know, snippets of songs. I was always humming phrases. I always had melodies in my head, and I never did anything with it, you know, for a long time. And then after college, I got this horrible corporate job. That was I mean, a person and a job couldn't be more ill suited for each other. And got myself out of that after a couple of years and started teaching in a sort of a parent child might like a mommy and me music program in New York City. And I took about an 80% pay cut from my corporate job to do that. And, and that power was hard, but the rest of it was magical because that's what I was supposed to be doing you know, as soon as I got in there and I was teaching 20 classes a week to to little ones and and I just absolutely loved it and you know, and then I started really writing my own songs and performing at open mics and doing that whole thing in the West Village of Manhattan and and grew from there.
Lisa Danylchuk 5:44
Yes, I didn't know that either. Love it. I can see it I can so see you there and I wish I could have gone in like seen show I feel like that's one of the best places just for like show up in a place and get this really amazing music and a incredible experience and evening so I'm so glad you had that experience
Kira Willey 6:02
Oh, yeah, and what an experience back in the day at the bitter end and places like that and in where just all kinds of fellow independent musicians are doing the thing and we all had our 20 minute set and you know, we were the only ones in the audience for the other ones. Nobody came to our shows except for our boyfriends.
Lisa Danylchuk 6:18
Yeah, turn to each other at the end of the day.
Kira Willey 6:21
Yeah, right. But it was a great, great experience and so the songwriting just grew from there. I just never stopped songwriting. Just my audience changed a little bit.
Lisa Danylchuk 6:21
Yeah, yeah, they're definitely the kid the yoga kids weren't showing up in Greenwich Village.
Kira Willey 6:43
No, not at the bars that's for sure. Yeah. And I didn't have the ones of my own men or anything so but it was an excellent experience both on stage and for songwriting. That served me well for what I do now.
Lisa Danylchuk 6:50
Yeah, how does music impact you when you're the listener or the one in the audience or just playing it and receiving it? What do you notice?
Kira Willey 7:40
Oh, music moves me like you can't believe I mean music I am, I mean, I really feel like I am music, I hear music in my head all the time, even when it's not playing. I write songs in my head a lot. In fact, you know, if I'm bored or tired and can't go to sleep or driving or you know, I am I am creating or playing music in my head. It's just part of me and always has been and always will be. So the easiest way for me to change my own mood or state if I need to, is just is go to music that will have the desired effect. And I've always known that about myself. So if I really needed a state, you know, sometimes you need to be in the feelings and but other times you really kind of need to you're you're done with being grumpy and you need to flip it on its head, I can go to music and it's going to do that for me. And knowing that about myself and knowing how music affects our affects our physiology has helped me a lot with my work using music with children because you can really affect the energy in a room the mood in a room the tone with music with rhythm with sound you know, depending on varying its tempo, its its volume, its feeling the kind of melody all that kind of thing. So it really has a strong effect on me for sure. But also on other people and that's what I use in my work.
Lisa Danylchuk 8:24
It's so rich and it makes me think of a lot of the work that I do with yoga and trauma recovery where you're looking for a breath practice or a shape or what's going to bring what's going to create a transition that's desirable in this moment, right? So it's not like any set of feelings or states are bad but sometimes like you said, we're just in the feelings too much or too long or work. Yeah, we feel kind of stuck or in a puddle and we can't get our way out. And so I love that it's like breath and movement and music can help us make that transition. And what I love as you're describing music is how I mean I've heard people describe it almost like this channeling process like this tune just sort of comes to you it just shows up and then it evolves and and so I'm thinking about that sort of magical inspired way that music comes through to us but also the collaborative nature of it of performing together and different instruments and even if you're recording different things and layering them on top of each other there's just like so much texture and so much richness to that and that whole artistic you know, synergy can then really communicate something, right? And, and offer literal vibrations, right, through our bodies to create a shift.
Kira Willey 9:44
There's nothing I love more than creating music with other people. I mean nothing I mean I lead choirs and pre pre pandemic I founded something called Choir and Company, which is we did events with we got sort of non singers, just regular people who love to sing together for an evening and I would teach them a song and we'd sort of perform it for ourselves. At the end of the night, and we did it for, you know, fundraisers and charities and corporate events and stuff and people, there's so much joy that's created when you make music together with other people. I mean, it's, it's, it's actually, you know, it's not just a feeling it's literal, scientific, you know, it's hormones being released. It's oxytocin, it's, it's dopamine, it's endorphins, it's all that good stuff. It brings out such incredible joy to create music with other people. So while I love doing music on my own, and I'll always do it there's nothing better than creating with others you know and that collaboration and that feeling of making music together it's really powerful.
Kira Willey 10:42
Yes, and it's a very full person full body experience, right? It's funny as you're talking.
Lisa Danylchuk 10:50
Yeah, it's reminding me of this moment I had actually with my brother Matt, when I lived in Italy during college and my brothers came out to visit and we were traveling around Northern Italy. And I had some song in my head, like a pop song. And he was a musician. So very like in, you know, deep and heavy opinions at times, like, oh, like, this isn't that pop song. It's so easy. Like, there's no complexity to it. So I had some pop song stuck in my head. I don't remember which one it was. And he's like, I could say anything to you right now, and you would get it stuck in your head. He's like, I can give you an ear worm right now. He's like, hm, how about if you want my socks? That was like, what? And so no joke within probably five minutes. Like it was in there. He got this ear worm in my head. So we ended up writing an entire song. And this is the only time I'm not a songwriter. I'm not a musician. I love music. I like to sing. You know, I don't usually expose other people to listening to me. But like, that was my experience and my memory of collaborative songwriting. Because then we ended up writing an entire song he went on to like, make verses and lyrics actually have it recorded now, The Sock Song.
Kira Willey 11:59
Oh, I gotta hear, I gotta hear that song. I gotta hear it. Sounds amazing.
Lisa Danylchuk 11:59
I'll play it for you. It's so amazing. And then one Christmas, he gave me the 73 minute version, where he just looped it over and over and started throwing weird things in the background. That one's like burned on a CD somewhere, I really have to have to find it and get it on the computer. But anyhow, I feel like that. There's this relational element to it, right? There's like a spark. There's a playfulness. There's fun, there's an unknown, like, hey, we're just going to create something together right here. And you know, you mentioned mindfulness earlier and that's such a big part of both of our worlds but it's this really organic, natural fun form of mindfulness is kind of how I'm thinking of it.
Kira Willey 12:41
100%, yeah, and when you collaborate with others, I love Songwriting with other people, you just, you never know what's going to happen, you literally never know what's going to happen. So I'm going to give you a groove and all of a sudden a melody pops and someone said, and someone else contributes the rhythm. And all of a sudden, it's, you just created a thing that didn't exist five minutes earlier, you know, it's really really remarkable.
Lisa Danylchuk 13:04
I get the chills because we've been using the words unprecedented and uncertain a lot in the last few years and it's this wonderful manifestation of that you walk in and you're like this is uncertain and this is unprecedented and how beautiful right how wonderful that we're just going to create something we have no idea what it is at this point. So how and when did music yoga and working with kids together come about for you?
Kira Willey 14:30
Yeah, so I was teaching music at that parent child program, and really working hard teaching 20 or so classes a week. And I saw an ad for a children's yoga teacher training. And I had never, I just started my own yoga practice. You know, I was going, as we said, mostly for those like physical benefits, I wouldn't call myself. I wasn't sort of really into it, you know. But that just hit me. I was like, oh, I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. And it was expensive. And it was a stretch at that time for me. But, I did it. And I just knew that's what I was going to do. And I also knew that when I started teaching, when I got my certifications or teaching, that I would teach with music, because that was comfortable for me and sure enough, when I got my certification, and I started teaching anywhere that would have me which was not very many places at that time. I brought my guitar because I was so comfortable. For me, it was honestly like a bit of a crutch. It was really comfortable for me to hold a guitar. And, what was uncomfortable for me was to be in a room with 25 six year olds, like that. I just had my first child. So you know, she was still teeny. I didn't have a lot of experience with that management. So I started using music and I started singing my instructions, and I started creating the songs. And it's just, I mean, it's just a magical combination. You know, attaching information to a melody makes it so memorable. Makes it really fun and makes it really engaging. You know, I mean, there's all kinds of science behind more parts of kids' brains lighting up when they're processing music than when they're just doing auditory processing. So all kinds of science behind it, but you don't need to know the science to see that it works really quickly and really effectively and it was just a magical combination.
Lisa Danylchuk 15:18
I really appreciate this because, you know, I'm in the world of trauma informed yoga and there can, we can sort of lean towards, I want to say rigidity, in that thinking, Okay, we're trying to keep people safe. Music can be triggering for some people, so let's never play music or, you know, touch can be triggering. So it will never do that. And, and so I've definitely known people who use music or even use touch in a very well trained, consensual, you know, clear way with people who've experienced trauma and so I'm thinking about music as you're describing, it's just this other tool, right? That you can bring into really engage physiologically with folks. Like there's a lot of an unknown in there because if someone just walks into a classroom you don't know their history. You don't know what might be more helpful or more challenging for them, but I'm wondering if you've. Have you ever seen someone have a negative reaction to music or have you ever had someone come to a class or say, oh, I'm not going to come to the class because there's music in it?
Kira Willey 16:24
I haven't. I have, and in all my time with children, I'm very careful to teach, you know, through a trauma informed lens. And I've, you know, taken a number of trainings and read a number of books, I wouldn't call myself an expert on the subject by any means. But I have educated myself enough to know how to teach through it from a trauma informed perspective. So I'm very careful to do that. I don't require you to know, closed eyes, or a certain position or anything like that. But I haven't had a negative experience with music, and, but I think I'm very, very savvy at with my music choices. And I can, I can read a room really well. And I now have had nearly two decades of experience working with young children., so I can really feel for lack of a better word, what's going to work and what isn't. And I'm also able to really quickly pivot if I see it's just not really working for the room, or even one child in particular. So I think it's born of experience. But I've been fortunate enough not to have a negative reaction like that, I could, I could totally understand how it could be possible, but I haven't.
Lisa Danylchuk 17:18
I'm wondering if there's an example that comes to mind around that pivot. Is it like a kid starting to look distracted or agitated or maybe the pace is too fast or too slow due to something come to mind?
Kira Willey 18:02
100%, so I always teach. I train a lot of teachers, and I always train them when they're using music rather than sound in the classroom, to meet the energy where it is, and then take it where you want it to go. Right? Don't try to fight, right, don't try to find the energy in the room. If you walk into a room and the children are bouncing off the walls, do not start singing a lullaby, it is not going to work, right? It's the opposite of what's going on.
Lisa Danylchuk 18:11
Yes, I feel like I just said the same thing in a workshop I was teaching last weekend. Same thing different words
Kira Willey 18:20
Okay, right, brilliant. So right and, and conversely, if the energy is really low, and everyone's lying all over the floor, but you need them to get up and focus, you know, don't, just. So meeting the energy where it is, but realizing that you're driving the bus, and you take it where you want it to go. So if the energy is really high, I will start with a clapping game. And we'll start clapping really fast. And I say clap with me clap will clap, ya know, and keep track. And then once I have them all doing it, then I'll slow it down. I'll slow it down. And until you're like this, and they're all waiting for the clap. But now you've got all their attention. You can feel it right? You've got their focus. You've got, right? And then you and then you. And all of a sudden you took a room of you know, kids who really really had a lot of scattered high energy and brought it into focus and took it where you wanted it to go. So, it's all about meeting that energy where it is. Don't fight against it, and take it where you want to go. And your choice of music and rhythm and song has a huge effect on that. You choose the right piece of music. And that's yeah, is your best friend, right? I mean, so I create songs that are just for this. I have a song called, All I want to Do Is Dance. And we just it's really high energy and we dance and we jump and we skip and we shake and then we shake faster. We shake faster, we shake faster, and then we freeze. And they're like oh my gosh because it's so exciting to freeze. And then, and then, and then we freeze like a block of ice, but then we melt. And then we melt, and then we melt and then all of a sudden you're calm and you're lying on the floor. But you had two minutes of really high energy motion. Got those ya yas out, melted to the ground—calm and focused. You know so I design. Now, I'm at the point where I design. I write songs. I create resources that actually do that for teachers. So, here's my song. This is going to help you take that high energy and take it where you want to go you know, so using it as a tool to help you meet that energy and direct it.
Lisa Danylchuk 20:26
I love that. And it's like you're a, it's like you're a trauma informed master conductor. Because I mean, this is like I was teaching a trauma workshop right. I just see you up there like you're conducting the energy of the room and and I love what you said to have you're driving the bus. I just had this moment. I was like, is that the name of your next book, Kira? You're driving the bus. I love it, right, because I was a kid, I loved everything on the bus and the yellow bus. And I don't know why they didn't have seatbelts. I hope they have seatbelts now, but I remember being on the yellow bus, wouldn't it? Yeah, right. I don't understand that. But that's the whole topic. But, I could like, I love that image of you driving the bus. And I just picture you as you're talking, conducting, right and you think of an orchestra and how there's so many pieces happening just like in a room with kids, there's so much going on, but you can take what's happening meet it and then give it a direction give it something to do give it somewhere to go and you also have an intention. You are facilitating or creating a shift or an experience or something. Right and so there's power and there's agency and then it's not just always do this or never do that and it's not just I'm going to show up and do whatever, right or I'm just going to do the plan. It's this beautiful relational experience of okay, I see we're really up right now. Let's get our ya yas out. Let's dance. Let's move and and the other thing I love about this is it's giving us opportunities like actual lived experiences of moving in and out of different states and our nervous system and our whole body like, oh, I can dance dance dance, and freeze. And that can feel really exciting. I hate and I can melt like an ice cube to the floor and I can actually ask my body to do these things and they can be fun. I love it all of that. Everything you're saying just matches up so much with so many of the things I teach so I'm wondering what do you see right now kids struggling the most with in the classroom or whether you're working with teachers and they're coming to you with questions. What are you seeing some of the biggest challenges being?
Kira Willey 22:52
I had a principal I just spoke to her last week. I used to go to her school every not twice a year and do a big, I do big assemblies for music and yoga for children. And I also train their teachers. And she said, I have kindergarteners who have literally never been in a school building before, or first graders who have, right because there is a year and a half at least of remote schooling and, and now they come in and they can only see eyeballs. And you know, it's just like, so she's having to, she can't do her regular job. She's now having to help these children who are so anxious and so and so behind in some ways in their social skills in their social emotional development. And she just, you know, she called me up and she's like, help, help, help, you know, like, well, how can we help these children who are so anxious? Who are so worried? Who don't understand what's going on in the world? Now, we're hearing about, you know, wars and I mean, it's just, it's, it's just, it's just a lot right for little littles and for the parents and teachers and family members who are trying to help them. So I'm doing a series of visits with her virtual visits with her school, where I am giving the children and the teachers lots of really simple, calming mindfulness exercises to do really fun, really simple. And just like we were just talking about, some of them are up and some of them involve movement and, and, you know, have some more sort of active or more active than others. Others are really grounding and calming. And I give them examples of when you can use these different ones, you know, like when you're outside, you know, and you're moving, trying to listen to, you know, what do you hear in the trees? What does the where's the wind sound like or what is the understanding that mindfulness doesn't have to be sitting on a cushion with a candle lit, right? Mindfulness is a way of being in the world. It's a way of paying attention to what's happening right now in our bodies, in our minds, and all around us. So how can we practice mindfulness? Here, all these different ways. And they can really help us calm down. And they can really help us focus our energy. And they can help us get rid of some of that stress we don't need, right? So it's just talking about it to children in a way that first graders can understand. Giving them lots of practical examples and giving their teachers things that they can take from it, so they can do it without me there. So becomes ongoing, you know, tools in their toolbox, as opposed to just something they can only do when I'm in front of them.
Lisa Danylchuk 25:46
Right, at an assembly or extra big zoom meeting or something. So that was a question I was wondering too is, how do you see like what's the pipeline for these skills to get into teachers to get just for them to be accessible for kids because I feel like everything with kids goes through some adults and then we're talking about schools. tThere's you know, government and institution and businesses involved, so how do you see those skills getting into the hands of children?
Kira Willey 26:27
That's a great question. And, unfortunately, educational policy is typically made by non teachers, right? It's made by lawmakers in big buildings far away. People who have not been in the trenches. Have not spent time in the classroom. So you know, that's a whole thing. That's a whole conversation. But I would say that lots of times, I get asked to come in and teach mindfulness in a school. And I'll say, that's great. And I'm happy to do that. But what would be way more effective is if I come train your teachers to deliver mindfulness, and they think, oh, I can't do that. I say, no, no, you do not need to go to a two week mindfulness retreat on a mountaintop. You do not need to have any special training. Listen, just, you know, get with your children, pretend your bear is hibernating for the winter, and take long, deep breaths for a minute, you'll be amazed at what it does. And that's mindfulness. They're like, oh, my gosh. So, I say, let me train your teachers. So it's get it it's, it's first of all, removing the preconceived notions about mindfulness with quotes around it, that's like a whole thing. And just defining it for them, and giving them really practical examples of what it is. And you can start now, not tomorrow, or next week, or in six months, you can start right now, right this minute. And when I give a presentation, this presentation to teachers, I define it for them. So, I demystify it. And I give them these practical examples. They're like, oh, like, we had no idea. First of all, what really what it was, second, how that I can do it with children, my students right now, you know, and third, the benefits, I'll rattle off a few studies that with children that show them the benefits, you know, the how, four deep breaths, there was a study not long ago, and young children can alter their stress physiology significantly. They're like 4 breaths, and I say, 4 deep breaths, you know, so, and getting the result. So it's just, it's just giving them that information and then letting them go. Because again, the studies also show that the primary relationship, it's not the right phrase, but you know, what I mean, with the child is the one who's most effective at delivering these types of interventions. It's not me who comes in once every six months to the school. It's the teacher who's with those children every day. That's where the most effective intervention comes from. So it's just empowering teachers. And I have said, a million times and I'll say it again, as far as public education. This stuff should not be mindfulness and social emotional learning should not be extra or enrichment. It should be essential learning in every public school.
Lisa Danylchuk 29:01
Wholeheartedly agree. Yeah, I spent a lot of time working in public and private schools and juvenile halls and settings with youth. And it is really sad when you see things come down to oh, well, we have to prepare for the standardized test. So, you know, Math and English and maybe Science, when there's just this sort of washing out of, of mindfulness of social emotional learning, and of the Arts too. And so I love that you're bringing all three of those together. And noticing how you know, the biggest question people are coming with is, okay, the kids are there, there's anxiety, which of course there is given everything that's going on. And then you say yes, and here's these tools that can be an essential part of learning that can help with that. In four deep breaths. Liike can help with that, in so many ways.
Kira Willey 30:03
Yeah, you can't not, you can't tell me you don't have time to do that. You know, because a lot of the reaction I get sometimes is, oh, I don't have time. Don't put one more thing on my plate. I'm required to do this, this and this and we already can't fit in the curriculum and I get that, and here's my response, when you practice this consistently for one minute at the beginning of each class period, you will get that time back and then some, because your children will be so much calmer, more grounded, you will be more productive and efficient in the classroom, you know?
Lisa Danylchuk 30:24
My response internally is you don't have time not to do this, like you have so many other demands that it's essential that this happens, so that you can get to all these other things, right? Because without those, you're wrangling a whole lot of different, you know, physiological states and things happening without even really knowing how or that you're trying to do it. And it gets in the way of these other goals and makes everyone I think, a little more stressed out?
Kira Willey 32:14
Right, I get calls a lot from, you know, it sort of as, like, treatment instead of prevention, if you will. So, like we're having PSATs, which are the horrible, in my opinion, standardized tests here in Pennsylvania, third graders, right undergoing this really rigorous standardized testing, which makes my head want to explode. But anyway, you know, so can you come in, after the, you know, PSATs and help the children? And I'm kind of like, well, first of all, let's maybe get rid of the PSATs. But, second, if you're practicing this, you know, consistently, it's not like a treatment measure that you throw on to an anxious bunch of children. If this is a tool in your toolbox, and you practice it consistently, though, you're not going to see such a display of highly anxious and stressed out behaviors, right? It's going to be, it's going to work as a preventive tool, you then you'll be able to notice when it's happening, and children will have the self awareness to, you know, nip it in the bud when they're feeling really dysregulated. So, it's, it's a, it's a mindset shift, I think, to a consistent practice, it becomes a preventative intervention as opposed to oh my gosh, I'm really stressed out. Okay, now, let's now, let's figure out some mindfulness, right? Right now in this moment. No, that's not the moment. It's the consistent practice making it a habit making it a routine that becomes really effective.
Lisa Danylchuk 32:22
Right, and zooming, you zoom out to see, what's the general tone of this classroom or whatever the setting is? And if, if the setting if the tone is crisis most of the time, and then you're just looking for a little relief from that crisis? Oh, well, after the test, can you help them come back down? Can you help them feel a little better, so they can move on to the next thing? If you flip that? And, I'm 100% with you, I mean, prevention and early intervention are my jam. So, can you make the foundation calm? Can you make the foundation flexible and responsive and able to engage, so that when there's a crisis, maybe from that foundation, you go up and come back down to your baseline, rather than being at this high crisis baseline where you just dip down and try to get a little relief after every moment? Or every challenging moment?
Kira Willey 33:16
Right, 100%. Yeah, that's a perfect description of where a lot of early childhood classrooms live in pretty much a constant dysregulated state and just occasionally, you know, finding that common regulation and you know, looking to flip that on its head.
Lisa Danylchuk 33:33
Right, yeah, there's so much I could say about that. I mean, even the way you know, we can get into how children are fed throughout the day and the things that children tend to want to eat and why and how that might fold in. But that's a whole other other trajectory. I'm curious about parents. What do you mean parents have been, in a sense, the school teachers for the last couple of years with homeschooling and online learning and so how do you see parents folding into this and do you work with parents? What do you offer there?
Kira Willey 34:57
Yeah, I work with parents. I mean, not as much as I do with children. But I get a lot of emails and things from parents and a lot of parents write reviews of my books, and I go and read those because it's really helped, helps me understand where they're coming from and what they found useful. And I, I would say that similar to teachers, you want the mindset to be, here's a habit that we can get into. Here's, here's, here's a practice that we do every morning in the car on the way to school. Here's what we do. You know, we spend one minute with these deep breaths and maybe practicing some gratitude before every meal. Here's what, making it some tiny little baby step in your day that you will consistently do will yield such benefits and just attaching it to something that's already in your routine. So, Peaceful Like a Panda, I organized the mindfulness exercises by time of day for that reason. So there's Rise and Shine. You know, there's Playtime. There's Brain Boosters. So, whatever time of the day you are, go pick a practice their 60 seconds or less, and attach it to that thing that you always do at that part of the day you're in the car, you're, you know, getting into bed at storytime or whatever. And do that practice and make it a consistent habit. Then you have it in your toolbox, when you know what hits the fan. And you can say, oh, okay, now remember bear breath? How we do that every night before bed? Let's do bear breath. Right now. Let's do bear breath. I can see you're really feeling you know, upset, let's try their breath. And you know how to do it, because you've been doing it every evening at bedtime. So it's finding that little baby practice that you can put in consistently, and just make part of your family's culture, family's language, yields really incredible benefits.
Lisa Danylchuk 35:54
Yes, 100%, this podcast is about healing, right? And, I'm wondering, if, like, what words people use? Whether it's school teachers or parents or kids themselves, like what do you think they're looking for when they're coming to you for help? tThey're coming for help with anxiety. But what is, what's the other side of that?
Kira Willey 36:22
Hmm, that's a really good question. I would say there's almost I want to say the word comfort. And, like, I hear the word, especially around my music with children, I hear the word soothing a lot. I think people are looking for that, you know, that the music that gives them a hug, right, and I'll get a lot of correspondences, like my child couldn't settle down to go to sleep, and I play, you know, your song, and it really calms her. Or, calm, I think is another really good word. I think they're looking for calm, and comfort, and to be soothed in this very turbulent world. You know, I think young children sort of back in the day used to be kept much more in a bubble of childhood. And, unfortunately, with so much media coming at them from every direction, and many grownups, not maybe not knowing enough or not able to shield them from it, right? The TV's on. The radio's on in the car. The internet, this or that—the other thing. They're not shielded from things that they should be shielded from long enough. So, I feel like young children, whether they can articulate it or not, are looking for, for calm and for comfort from the turbulent world because they're not ready. They're not ready to face what's going on in the world. Right? They'll grow up and they'll be ready. But, I think that's what they're looking for. And I think that parents, whether they can articulate it or not, are also looking for that. So, you know, I seek to soothe and calm and comfort with my resources and give coping skills to both parents, teachers, and to children. So that when they grow up to face that world, they're ready, because if you think about what these children are going to face. We don't know what the world's gonna look like in 10 or 20 years, right? But I can tell you that, you know, knowing the capital of New Zealand is not going to be as important as knowing how to calm yourself, to release stress that is not serving you, and to be able to focus and pay attention and, and, therefore make good choices. Those things are going to be important no matter what. Right? That's why we call this essential learning. A lot of the other learning that children spend so much time certainly in public education. Those facts and figures are available at the click of a button. You know, but these coping skills. These tools for children to calm themselves, and focus themselves, and soothe themselves are our skills that need to be taught and need to be practiced.
Lisa Danylchuk 39:07
Yes, I was gonna ask you what you would say to the people who are supporting youth and young children, but I think I'm going to guess the answer, which is, I'm guessing you would say that they can practice these for themselves first. But, is there anything else you would add to that or am I off here?
Kira Willey 39:36
No, 100% I do tell teachers that you can't, you can't teach the children mindfulness if you don't buy into it. If you're just like, press play on the audio mindful moment, and then go check your phone. Not gonna work. Not gonna work, right? You need to model it, you need to practice, you need to buy into it. So, whenever I do training with teachers, I always start by saying, Okay, what little baby mindfulness practice can you implement in your own day? In your own life? Is that arriving at the school five minutes early, and sitting in your quiete car and breathing? Right? Is that getting your classroom a little early with the lights off and just taking a few deep breaths? Is it a walk around the school before you enter the building just to gather yourself and leave what's home at home and get present? You know, what is it? And we brainstorm, we come up with ideas, and I make them write something down that, you know, but just some small practice that they'll commit to, so that they can show up from a place of being centered and present, and then be able to help children learn these skills as well.
Lisa Danylchuk 40:37
I appreciate that you brought in the definition of mindfulness and that that's part of the trainings you offer. I'm thinking about, you know, right now, it's transitioning slowly into spring. And so I'm starting to see more blossoms on the trees and even that moment of noticing what's happening around you in your immediate environment noticing the seasons change, noticing if you do see something like for me, I love looking up and seeing like magnolia or cherry blossom, like it's just such a moment for me and if I'm in that really like, up crisis, go go, you don't see it. You're just in tunnel vision moving to the next thing, but, for me, just, if I'm going on a walk by myself or with my dogs, and I give myself that moment to appreciate what I see and to connect with it and to even smell the blossoms, or, you know, walk back, and take another whiff where there's that area where the scent is. Like those kinds of things, to me feel like really essential mindfulness practices in my day. And maybe they're even more powerful than you know sitting cross legged and noticing my breath. They feel like there's more connection there. And so, I appreciate that you know, as you're teaching folks and inviting teachers and parents to try this as well, there's a there's like an invitation. It doesn't have to look a certain way. You can connect it to, oh, you already walk your dog in the morning? Well, what's something, you know, what's something you can connect with there and how can you build in these micro habits around things you're already doing? I think it just makes it so much more accessible and it doesn't feel like an extra to do. Well, I gotta sit down for 10 or 20 minutes and have to check that box before I can go walk the dog, right?
Kira Willey 42:35
Yeah, you can do almost anything you already do mindfully. And, so, it's dispelling that notion of like you said, sitting cross legged, you know, on a cushion like this and ohming. No, I mean, that's great. If that's what you want to do, fantastic. But, you can, you can practice mindfulness while eating. Right? As you notice the texture and what does it look like? And how does it feel in your mouth? Right, but how many of us get our food and then we put our laptop right here. And we're like, right, shoveling in the food. I mean, guilty as charged, right? But you can. So, it's, first of all, explaining that mindfulness, it's a way of being, it's a way of moving through the world. It can involve movement. It can involve walking outside. It can involve noticing the cherry blossoms. And second, understanding that the reason that it helps us feel more centered and calm and grounded is when you're present in the moment. You're not thinking about the past, and you're not worrying about the future. And those are the two things that most often make us feel like this, we're usually doing one of those two things. So, if, by noticing those beautiful blossoms on the trees, you bring yourself into the present moment, all of a sudden, you've stopped worrying about what's going to happen tomorrow, right? And you've stopped dwelling on that conversation you had yesterday. So, I think just defining this for parents and teachers and people who work with children is so helpful because they, they get it, right? And they get that mindfulness is just a way of moving through the world. Here's why it's helpful. Here's how simple it is. Start now.
Lisa Danylchuk 43:53
I love how earlier it came about, like, there's this unprecedented and you know, unknown feeling and that creativity can be this playful, amazing, ah, inspiring way to engage with those emotions. I'm wondering, what do you think creativity can do for us now or can teach us now?
Kira Willey 44:40
Creativity is self expression. It's using your voice. Right? And I think that when things go crazy in the world, and when things are forced upon us that we don't like, like lockdowns, like, you know, masks and we can't go to school and all the other things. It becomes even more important to use our voice. Right? And, so, that creativity, that self expression, especially for young children, and especially for children in public education, which still just operates on, in my opinion, an antiquated model of one to many, right and sitting at a desk and receiving information. So it's just very, typically a very one way exchange. And, I believe that young children are not asked nearly enough for their opinion, for their voice, for their input. And so at every session that I teach. Every, every class that I teach, I find a way to invite, and it's usually involved, since it's me, music and rhythm, right? So that's a rhythm game, where I start, and I say you go, your turn, what's your rhythm, right? What's your or we make up a yoga pose, what's your pose going to be? Or we make up a dance. Let's invite, right? It doesn't need to be asking them for their verbal opinion. It can be asking them to show me a movement with their bodies, a rhythm that they've created, and you'll learn so much about them by what they bring forth. Right? Because they're going to what's living in them is going to come out in their rhythm or their movement. So I think that creativity in all ways is incredibly important especially for children and especially now.
Lisa Danylchuk 45:56
Yeah, 100%, I love one thing you said in there, which was because it's me because I've worked with so many yoga teachers that I think are looking for the template or they're looking for, you know, in a training they want to go through and be like, okay, tell me what to do tell me how to be and it's like you do still need to be yourself like this actually super, super important, and so I really appreciate like, well because it's me, we're gonna be doing rhythm. We're gonna be singing, and like, this me being who I am, and I think that is such a great example. You know, we teach through our invitations and our conversations and we also teach through our example of, hey, this is me self expressing while I'm with you, and then that gives this permission for other people to say hey, this is me being me. Hey, this is me being me. And then, I just feel like there's so much permission and growth and like a skirting of so many other challenges that could come up when we can be in that space. This is just me. So I know we got to wrap up in a second here but I just have a couple more questions. What gives you hope right now?
Kira Willey 47:15
What gives me hope is the amount of educators and other grownups who are bringing this work to children. Who believe really strongly in it. I have a membership called Rockin Yoga, where educators who bring yoga mindfulness and social emotional learning to children come together and these people give me hope, because they just believe so strongly in it. They're out there working every day in preschools and YMCAs and libraries and you name it to bring these practices to children. And I think it's growing. I think it really is growing so that gives me hope.
Lisa Danylchuk 47:40
That's great, Rockin Yoga. And, what's next for you? Are you kind of leaning more into that mentorship and training through Rockin Yoga? Are you performing your music? What's, what's coming up for you?
Kira Willey 47:56
Yeah, luckily the school performances are starting to come back, which is great. I have a bunch booked this spring, I've really missed being in big, horribly lit school gyms with 400 children. It's crazy and awesome all at the same time. So I have another children's mindfulness, my seventh, do out next year. That's wrapping up production right now, which is great. I have a sixth and a seventh album coming out this year. I wrote a song for every exercise in this book, Peaceful Like a Panda, so those will be out. I'm loving this membership and I'm inspired to just keep creating resources for them too. So, I'm definitely in a period of high creativity.
Lisa Danylchuk 48:01
Prolific, that's incredible. You have so many resources available and I love I've just downloaded your music easily online and on my phone and I love having it handy. And there's dogs in the house and a 19 year old. We don't have any youth. My inner child listens to your music.
Kira Willey 49:02
I appreciate it. I love it. What's good? Well, I you know, I wrote it. I hoped that adults would, you know, the key about children's music is making sure that the grownups like it too because you know, if not, you're in trouble as an artist. So it's got to be it's got to be palatable for everybody.
Lisa Danylchuk 49:07
Oh, yeah. There's reminds me of a few of my friends' kids who like I've, I've gotten the album because I've heard it so many times. I'm like, Okay, I kind of like this. Yeah. It was made for me, but I can rock it. It's fine. So how can people connect with you?
Kira Willey 49:07
So, yeah, Kira Willey dot com. K-I-R-A-W-I-L-L-E-Y. You can learn all about me and my programs and my resources. You can find my books anywhere they sell books, you can find my music anywhere you can get music, so, whether that's Spotify or Apple Music, it's all good. It's available everywhere. And I'll provide a free page of resources, some audio mindfulness tracks for your listeners. And so you can put that link in your show notes and those or just it's literally my voice reading a really simple child friendly mindfulness exercise with some pretty music in the background. You just press play. Do it with your child and you know, find some, find some calm, find some grounding, so I'll link y'all to that.
Lisa Danylchuk 50:28
I love it. Thank you so much Kira for everything you do. And for all the youth you're supporting, I know when I used to work with young people, there's a sense of, of passing things on of opportunity when things come in at a young age that you know, the possibility of where that can go. So I just don't, I know that the work that you're doing has a really powerful impact. And I also know that sometimes when you're doing the work and, and, you know, offering trainings, you don't always see the results of that. So I just want to reflect that to you that I know there's a lot of people out there who've been impacted by you by your music and your books and, and all the wonderful things you teach. So thank you.
Kira Willey 51:06
Pleasure. Thank you. I really appreciate your saying that. Thank you for having me. This has been a wonderful conversation.
Lisa Danylchuk 51:12
Yes, yes, it's so much love for you, Kara. And I look forward to talking to you again soon. And we'll put your website and all your resources in the show notes so folks can find you easily. Thanks, Kara.
Kira Willey 51:26
All right, thanks, Lisa.
Lisa Danylchuk 51:26
You're amazing.
Lisa Danylchuk LMFT, E-RYT, IAYT (she/her/hers)
President, The International Society for the Study of Trauma and Dissociation
Founder, The Center for Yoga and Trauma Recovery
Author: Yoga for Trauma Recovery, Theory, Philosophy and Practice
Yoga Trauma Training | Center for Yoga and Trauma Recovery
http://www.linkedin.com/in/lisadanylchukmft
http://instagram.com/howwecanheal
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