Today on the How We Can Heal Podcast, Lisa Danylchuk and Erica Chang come together to discuss their love of yoga. The pair talk about their experience working with traumatized youth, practicing yoga to feel grounded, and what teaching looks like today.
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About Erica Chang:
Erica has practiced yoga since 2010 and completed her 200 hour yoga teacher certification with Pamela Higley at Samdhana Karana Yoga. She has also completed the Yoga Behind Bars training and volunteered at Remann Hall, teaching yoga and meditation to youth.
With yoga, she has found a melding of the best things in her life: spirit, athleticism, sweat, breath, laughter, community, and rhythm. Her goal as an instructor is to offer a space to explore, allowing others to become curious about what they are capable of as they leave a little stronger, a little softer and a lot more balanced.
Outline of the episode:
- [9:45] From practice to teaching
- [13:05] Teaching yoga at a youth detention center
- [21:01] Teaching yoga with a trauma approach
- [23:09] Erica’s work at the Attorney General's Office
- [25:43] Rooted tools for yoga teachers
- [28:31] Teaching yoga online and transitioning back to in person
- [35:48] Erica’s yoga practice
- [45:39] Bringing yoga to the youth
- [49:17] What gives Erica hope
Resources:
Join Erica on the mat: https://edgeworksclimbing.com/tacoma/fitness_instructors.html
Instagram @ericachang_
Tell me about you: https://forms.gle/WuF5K8XggF7Spn1A9
Transcription:
Erica Chang 0:00
I would really like a class to go well, and sometimes folks fall out, and like you know, it's all right like that does happen. A water bottle might spill and make noise and that's okay. Right? Sometimes not aiming for perfection just aiming for authenticity.
Lisa Danylchuk 0:19
Welcome back to Season Two of the How We Can Heal podcast. I so enjoyed sharing season one with you. And we have some incredible guests coming on for season two. I created this podcast because the hard times seem to just keep on coming these days. These guests and I have committed our lives to healing work, and to fostering health and joy in the world, even as we work through the impacts of trauma and face deep challenges. So let's dive in. And let's all keep talking about how we can heal.
Lisa Danylchuk 0:51
Today our guest is Erica Chang. Erica has practiced yoga since 2010 and completed her 200-hour yoga teacher certification with Pamela Higley. At some Donna Khurana yoga. She's also completed the yoga behind bars training and volunteered at Rehmann Hall teaching yoga and meditation to youth. With yoga, Eric has found a melding of the best things in her life, spirit, athleticism, sweat, breath, laughter, community, and rhythm. Her goal as an instructor is to offer a space to explore, allowing others to become curious about what they're capable of, as they leave a little stronger, a little softer, and a lot more balanced. Erica and I first connected when she began her yoga practice back in 2010. And she attended my yoga classes at Yoga Works in San Francisco. She was such a regular she had her spot in the room, back left as the teacher looks at it back right as you're looking forward to the front of class And she had some favorite songs on the playlist. She always brought positive energy and helped build a sense of community within the class. I loved having her in class as a student. And I'm so glad to share her work with youth and as a yoga teacher with you today. Let's welcome Eric on the show.
Erica Chang 2:09
Hi, how are you.
Lisa Danylchuk 2:11
I'm good. I'm so excited to have you on How We Can Heal Podcast. How are things going? How's everything in Seattle?
Erica Chang 2:10
It's good. So I moved to Tacoma about eight years ago. It'll be eight years in July.
Lisa Danylchuk 2:17
Stop it. It's been eight years.
Erica Chang 2:25
Well, I think since I've moved but yeah.
Lisa Danylchuk 2:28
I was gonna guess like three
Erica Chang 2:30
No, it's been a while.
Erica Chang 2:32
Wow
Unknown Speaker 2:33
Yeah.
Lisa Danylchuk 2:34
And you're in Tacoma, right? Or you're teaching in Tacoma.
Erica Chang 2:37
I'm in Tacoma. Yeah
Lisa Danylchuk 2:39
Okay. Cool. So I we met, it must have been in like 2009.
Erica Chang 2:43
Yeah, I think so.
Lisa Danylchuk 2:44
Does that sound about right to you?
Erica Chang 3:01
Yes
Lisa Danylchuk 3:03
Yes, it was. Um, so it drew me to yoga, I was going to grad school in San Francisco. And I remember, I was in the midst of writing my thesis was on which was on memory and mourning and 20th-century literature and art. So I think I just needed something to distract myself with. And yoga was a big part of the San Francisco culture at that time. And I just stumbled across Yoga works. I took a class and I'm forgetting which studio it was, but I took a class and I bought a mat the next day, and I kept going, and I was trying out different studios. What worked, what didn't work, learning, you know,
Erica Chang 4:46
what kind of style I like, and how I can get out of my head and just into my body.
Lisa Danylchuk 4:53
Yes. So what did you like? This feels very self-serving, but I'm like, What did you like about my class? What drew you what? You kept coming back? You know, I loved having you there.
Erica Chang 5:08
I liked how inviting it seemed right? I think sometimes just being in the yoga scene for as long as I've been in, so maybe what puts me at 12 years now, it's really heartwarming. When a teacher's just very welcoming the classes very inclusive. People feel like they have a space of belonging, and they can do it. And I think you offered a lot of different options. I remember the first time there was a headstand, I was like, oh, no, thank you. You're like, Well, maybe not today, but maybe tomorrow, like, and I did it. And I was just like, yeah, maybe tomorrow, like, it doesn't have to be at this moment. Like, take my time, listen to my body, and just trust that this could happen.
Lisa Danylchuk 5:52
Yeah, that reminds me of a woman, I went through teacher training with Joe Tessa, who's from Australia. And she talked about learning headstand in our training. And you know, people can have a whole life of yoga without doing headstand or other inversions, for that matter. But she's like, I was in India, and I did and everyone in the room went up into headstand, and it didn't know how to do it. So. And this isn't like the recommended, I think you would agree, not the recommended way to learn headstand, she's like, so I went up, and it went up. And I fell down. And I went up, and I say, and then I fell down. And that next magical time, you know, so she's kind of telling that story. Yeah, there's some intimidating things, I think in yoga, so it is nice. It's wonderful for me to hear that it felt inclusive and inviting, and, and safe in that way that you didn't feel like, okay, everybody's doing Santa have to do it right now, right like that. It's, you can just leave the opportunity. Like maybe tomorrow, we'll see.
Erica Chang 6:46
Right? And I think it was just very approachable. Like, there were different things that we could try on, and like you let us do what felt best for us. Like, I mean, Carlos Stanton in the back.
Lisa Danylchuk 7:00
Fondest memories, like when I do think of teaching there, that's probably the first things I think about. Yeah, there was a back row. And then Alyssa in the corner, there was like a background and a front row that was like always on point, like, the corners of the room were held down, and then people would fill in them and all such good memories. Yeah, I do miss that place. And I know it's not there anymore. Because I think Yoga works closed its doors. I don't know if it's still a studio. But Amazing how things can change in 12 years. I do remember you're a student. And I do remember you talking about just stress management, right? That it would sort of help. What did you find as you started practicing yoga, what was it you know? What was it that you were feeling internally that made you want to keep coming back or that made you just keep digging into yoga so that it was a party, it's become a part of your life the way that it is now?
Erica Chang 7:46
I think what has stayed with me is like being able to listen to my breath. I think sometimes in today's society, we're on the go constantly. And I get this way too. Like when I'm going on a hike, I'm like, this is a destination, this is where I need to be. I don't need to pay attention to other things. But I think with yoga, if I'm able to listen to my breath, I'm able to understand, like, why my body might feel tired, why I might feel okay, or have a lot of energy and being able to take the time to be aware of that.
Lisa Danylchuk 8:15
Yeah, it gives you that space to connect, right? Like, okay, this is what I need right now. And you know, some of those tools of like just attuning to your breath, noticing what it's doing. Shifting it if need be, you know, there's a lot of that, that internal awareness that can come rather than the pulled out into going here and doing this doing that running all over the place, which is very, I mean, very common, I would say around the world these days, but it's also very much American culture to just go and not rest. So I'm wondering, how has your relationship with yoga changed over time?
Erica Chang 8:55
Yeah, so I think when I first started doing yoga, I wanted to do all the challenging poses. I also know that I'm very type A, like, Oh, yes, give me a challenge. And I want to do it. I think my way of teaching yoga is to do a lot of repetition, to build muscle memory and to learn, and also be creative, right? Like a CNA can be very different from a CNA that I created a week ago. But allowing students to feel a couple of times to understand like, oh, like maybe you're, you're holding your breath. Are you doing it again? Are you able to relax and like really being the pose and the posture?
Lisa Danylchuk 9:35
And at what point did you start teaching what caused you to switch from you know, just practicing on the mat to sharing it with other people?
Erica Chang 9:44
Yeah, so the first year that I live in Tacoma, I was trying out different yoga studios and like, I'm investing a lot of time in this. Why not do teacher training? And I didn't know if I wanted to be a teacher quite yet. But I was just like, I, there's so many things about yoga that I do not know. I know the asanas. I know the postures, but I don't know much about philosophy or the myths or Sanskrit or things like that. So how can I learn this? So yeah, I signed up. And then right after a teacher training, I started teaching right away. I did not expect that, and I've been teaching for. I think it'll be six years now.
Lisa Danylchuk 10:26
That's amazing. I've heard that story countless times. And it's mine, too. Like I just signed up for yoga teacher training, because my own practice, I wanted to learn more, I was going all the classes and doing all the workshops, it was the next logical step. And then the second you graduate, someone's like, do you want to teach here? We have a space for you. You're like, oh, okay, I guess Yeah, I mean, I learned all this, I might as well. I've heard it so many times. So I do think there's something beautiful about that the way that we're just kind of called into something. And, you know, I was talking with my mom who it was episode one of this season about that, too, about just like feeling things forward, and following your interest and your curiosity and, you know, opportunities show up. And it's, it's always fascinating. Yeah, I never planned on becoming a yoga teacher. But here we are. And you've also been working with youth, can you tell me a little bit more about that work that you've been doing?
Erica Chang 11:27
Yeah. So let's see, when I started teaching yoga, I also had a scholarship for yoga behind bars. So I had the opportunity after taking that training to teach yoga at a youth detention center in Tacoma. So I did that for about two years. And at the same time, I was also working for a nonprofit that advocated or advocates for youth in foster care. So learning how systems are in place currently, how there are a lot of gaps and challenges for youth to get through and sometimes not always achieve what they would like to do. And then also learning about what life is like in a detention center. What youth have access to what they don't have access to, and just giving them the opportunity to move their bodies as well.
Lisa Danylchuk 12:21
I love that work. And I think you know that, you know, probably around the same time that you were taking classes at Yoga works, that I was doing a lot of that to teaching yoga in juvenile halls. And I find that people are in I've known a lot of people who are very called to that type of work. So I want to talk a little bit more about it. But I also find that people who haven't done it are often very curious about, well, what's it like to teach in a detention center? And you know, what caused you to do it? So I'm, I'm just curious about your experience there. And what stood out to you, what did you What did you learn what really resonated with you in that work?
Erica Chang 13:07
What really resonated with me was that everyone was on the same playing ground like I walked in, I didn't wear traditional yoga clothes like I didn't have yoga leggings on, I didn't have anything that stood out, I wear sweat pants, and socks, as I was teaching, we were in a circle rather than being in a line like traditional classes.And then just had them address me as Erica, like, there was nothing special or anything that stood out to me, even though I was also in a position of power, like that was very much in the room. But realizing like how I can also put myself on equal playing ground as the other folks in the room. And also offering them an opportunity to move and learning, you know, how they can take care of their bodies. And I'm also learning that too, right? I'm in a space that I'm not familiar with, that might not be as vibrant as spaces that I typically am attracted to, like, there's a lot of color. There are guards standing by the doors things like that?
Lisa Danylchuk 14:19
And did you have the opportunity to teach with the same group over time? Or did you teach more of a drop-in class where people would come and go?
Erica Chang 14:26
It was more of a drop in class. But that's a great question. I think sometimes there were consistent students, but it also depended on how long they were staying at the center.
Lisa Danylchuk 14:35
Yeah, I found there to be a big difference in the feeling of the class and the amount of like, maybe not color in the room. Actually, we did a lot of art projects. So there was color in the rooms where I used to teach eventually but the amount of like vibrancy or feeling of connection that will come over time between classes with you know, we had classes with youth who were committed to a certain program for six or even nine months. And then there was the drop-in facility where it was very transient. And you know, maybe someone would be there for a few weeks or a few months and come consistently, but it was more, I had that like the piecemeal feeling of like, a little bit different every time maybe you start to get to know someone, but there was a different sort of palpable quality in the room between the drop in which had its own magic. And the long term, there was a level of depth and relationship that showed up in the longer term one. So I'm wondering if you ever felt like, you know, as you're coming in, and you're wearing sweat pants and socks and meeting people where they are? Yes, you're in a position of power, but you're also there, you know, to offer something and to be of support? Did you feel like you were able to, through teaching develop relationships? Or did it feel too transient? At that point?
Erica Chang 15:51
Yeah, it felt a little transient. And I just read an article about creating space as a yoga teacher, and how do you do that? It's consistency, right? So it made me reflect on you know, once I able to provide consistency and support to folks who were coming in and out of that space. And that's something that I think about when I'm entering a real teaching yoga like to folks feel comfortable, will they come back and my offering something that is supportive, supportive for them. So
Lisa Danylchuk 16:25
Yeah, and that's a hard one, because my experience within this sort of connects with I know, in the juvenile justice system, there's a big overlap with foster care and social services. And I've done a lot of work in group homes and other social services. So I feel like there's this overlap when you start looking at youth developing who are in those systems, there's usually a lot of experiences, or at least at one major experience, have a loss of trust, with adults or with authority, or with systems and so that can pose that challenge in terms of anyone coming in to offer writing or teach yoga or do whatever they're doing in these facilities. But it also, there's such an opportunity there, too, if you are showing up consistently, and you're intentionally holding some kind of helpful or positive or supportive space, there is such an opportunity there for someone to develop a positive relationship, right. And, and even if it's just, I know, sometimes in those classes with higher turnover, sometimes it's as simple as someone leaves. And you know, God forbid, they come back a few months, just as it happens, or is it and you remember their name, or you remember that they really liked Shavasana? Or you know, and some whatever the thing is, and I feel like those moments carry weight, like they really matter. So, yeah, I'm just curious if anything like that stood out while you were teaching to the youth there.
Erica Chang 17:54
Yeah, I think sometimes I would see us come, and then they would go back. And you know, the program, the yoga was optional for youth at the center, so they could come or not come. I was very interested in the folks who were coming. Like, why were they coming? And I think back on like, why I didn't ask that, right. Like, I'm curious on if they found it, restful or restorative for them. And it's interesting that you bring up the idea of trust. So right now my full-time job, I work for the attorney general's office for their policy team, and we are creating a youth safety and wellbeing tip line. There are a lot of folks that might not trust a state agency or the attorney general or those who are, you know, higher officials. So how do I build that trust? Right? How do I build trust with folks who might not know that this is an opportunity? So those are things that I also think about, like in my daily life, right, not just in yoga, but how do I create that space for hosts?
Lisa Danylchuk 19:01
Well, I think it's when you're working with human beings, right? You have to factor in relationships and how relationships develop. And there's that quote, I always get on the yogi teabags. Love Without trust is a river without water. It's like, you're like, hard to build, it's hard to build something. If you don't trust someone, then what else is there? Right. It's foundational. So I'm glad that you're doing that work and carrying it forward. And, and yeah, it applies in yoga and applies beyond and I do feel like and, you know, you probably know this, and probably most people listening by now know this, like yoga has so know that I believe this. Yoga has so many things to offer, one of them being that opportunity to build a relationship around something generative or positive. With there's so many other tools too. So I'm wondering whether it was in your experience in teaching yoga or in what you're doing with the Attorney General right now. What are some of the tools that feel foundational that you come back to, to offer youth.
Erica Chang 20:05
Yeah, I think being flexible, right, like knowing that one thing might not fit. What are other opportunities or avenues I could take or offer someone? And I think about that when I put together a yoga sequence, right? Like, does this flow make sense? And then I'll work it through my body. And while I teach it, I watch how other folks react to it, or how their body responds and think about like, okay, so if I'm getting this reaction, what if I tried this instead? Next time? Yeah, while still trying to be creative?
Lisa Danylchuk 20:40
Yeah. If you're getting like all the heads looking up at you confused, or everyone going the opposite direction of what you weren't?
Erica Chang 20:48
Like, oh, that's not what I meant.
Lisa Danylchuk 20:51
That's what everyone heard thought.
Erica Chang 20:54
Yeah. Or like or your other right side?
Lisa Danylchuk 20:58
Exactly. Whichever. Whichever.
Lisa Danylchuk 21:02
I'm curious with all of this. Do you? Is there anything you do to intentionally come with a trauma-informed approach?
Erica Chang 21:13
That's a great question. So how can I reduce or not cause harm to anyone who's been in the room, I think one of the ways that I do it is to introduce myself, right? Like, that way folks know who I am. They know how often I'm in that space. So I will always say like, I teach at a local climbing gym, I let folks know who I am. How often in there, that they can come to me with any questions, concerns or requests. So to create that particular space for them. And to also let them know, like, this is how I teach like, I'm a teacher of flow, I really like movement. But if you are not feeling it, if I'm cueing things too quickly, or too slowly, feel free to go at your own pace, like, I really like it when folks listen to their body and maybe take something on that I'm not teaching or the Hangout On Shabbat. So now for several minutes, rather than what I'm offering, because they know their body best and nearly facilitate the space.
Lisa Danylchuk 22:21
So you introduce yourself, you offer avenues for people to provide feedback, you offer choice. And you encourage people to trust their bodies and make a choice that's actually responsive to what they're feeling. Especially if it's going against the grain of the energy or the flow that you're bringing as a teacher.
Erica Chang 22:42
Exactly.
Lisa Danylchuk 22:43
Yeah, I think it's interesting. Sometimes we do things intentionally to be trauma-informed. And sometimes we're just like, this just works. You know, this just seems to be more helpful or more inclusive. There's a lot of overlap. And so yeah, there's definitely overlap there. Is trauma, something you talk about in your in your role with the Attorney General? Or is that? Do you guys come at it from a different angle?
Erica Chang 23:09
We talk about trauma as well. So this particular tip line that we're putting together will be youth-centered, so getting youth input on what they would like this program to look like. Also trauma-informed, right? Like I working for a state agency, we know that there can be a lot of harm that have been caused on folks. So how can we either reduce that, or create trust? Because if we don't have trust, we don't have a program, right? Like, we don't have stakeholders who can provide us with input. Also being aware that folks come from all walks of life. So being aware of how folks identify how they might respond to us, especially if English is not their first language, especially if they are a refugee or an asylee or neurodivergent. Like what are ways that we can be flexible and take on different methods or different approaches to learn from folks.
Lisa Danylchuk 24:07
That's great. So it's it's really, truly putting in work to be inclusive, right, not just saying anyone's welcome here, but really thinking about, who are we wanting to reach and include, what are their needs? How are they different? How are they similar and trying to connect right? And an item and specifically? So are you teaching yoga right now to youth at all? Are you doing yoga and one thing and then the youth work?
Erica Chang 24:34
Yeah. So I am doing the youth work separately. So like I said, I was teaching at a local detention center. And because at that time, I was working for a nonprofit that advocate for youth in foster care. It was challenging for me seeing some of the youth that I was working with in the center's right like I didn't have a lot of separation and it was a conflict and it just became a conflict of interest. So I had to let something go and I couldn't let my job go. At that time. I have taught like popup classes to youth. I've taught pop up classes to teens, which I really love. And right now I'm just teaching to adults, which I really enjoy.
Lisa Danylchuk 25:21
And are there tools that stand out to that and have been particularly helpful for the youth you've taught? It might be the same for adults that might be different, but are there maybe things you find yourself coming back to again and again, or things that you feel like really take root? And people share with you are more powerful?
Erica Chang 25:43
Yeah, so I think this is always stuck, like, just have fun teaching, right? Like, just embrace that there might be moments of folks who are falling out of things, and there's laughter and they can always get back in or try something else on. I think sometimes. I've done it too, right? Like, I would really like a class to go well, and sometimes folks fall out and like, you know, it's alright, like that does happen. A water Bottle might spill and make noise. And that's okay. Right. Thanks. Sometimes not aiming for perfection, just aiming for authenticity.
Lisa Danylchuk 26:20
Yeah. And what impact do you think that has? I mean, I, I can think of as a teacher, the difference between everything has to go well, and oh, my God, a water bottle fell. What am I gonna do and, oh, somebody's unstable in the pool, it means I'm not teaching, right? Like that anxiety, that stress, and like, as a teacher, embodying that is not fun. And, you know, we obviously are sort of sending out vibes and co-regulating as teachers. So I'm wondering, embracing that imperfection if we're going to call it that, or just the authenticity and the reality of being human, and you know, things wobbling, and water spilling and just the realities of life. What do you think the impact of that is, on students or on the experience of someone practicing with you?
Erica Chang 27:07
It shows that everyone is human, right? Like, you're not gonna get it perfectly. So I think just teaching throughout the pandemic. At first, when the pandemic started, I was just recording classes on YouTube and Facebook Live. My camera was not perfect, right? Like, you could hear me breathing as I was doing classes and like, oh, this sounds great. And then being in spaces, wearing a mask, and learning how to speak louder, because I'm talking through a mask. And then offering spaces where folks felt comfortable because I'm not doing adjustments right now. Classes are a little bit smaller. I'm not walking around saying everyone like I would normally. So that has changed how I've taught classes and being able to embrace that, right, like being able to say like, you know, we're gonna try our best. And hopefully, this does work. And if not like, we'll try it again next time.
Lisa Danylchuk 28:14
Yeah, I love that. I'm coming back to not today.
Erica Chang 28:18
Not today.
Lisa Danylchuk 28:19
Right?
Erica Chang 28:20
Exactly.
Lisa Danylchuk 28:21
There's always another day. So this brings up the whole teaching online, are you are you still teaching online? Are you back.
Erica Chang 28:31
I'm back to in person. So when the pandemic started, I think I was teaching online for about a year. And that was hard. But it was also, I think, towards the end, it was like I'm talking to a screen, talk on a screen for work. And now I'm doing it for yoga. But it's also being able to understand and listen to the cues that I was saying, and then being able to rephrase it or revise it when I taught next time, and then being able to do it in person. Just get a lot of gratitude for being able to teach still.
Lisa Danylchuk 29:10
Yeah, and it's definitely great that we have the technology to stay connected somehow. And then yeah, we get the screen fatigue comes with the territory. But was there anything you felt like you've learned from it sounds like you could kind of hear yourself and see things and reflect on your cueing. Was there anything else that stood out from teaching online?
Erica Chang 29:30
I think like you said, like, technology still offers us a way to connect with other folks, right? Like I'm still connected to you. We haven't seen each other in person in a long time. But I see all the adventures that you're doing. And yeah.
Lisa Danylchuk 29:42
Yeah, there is a real sense of connection and I find right now, especially live like I've done a few classes and trainings and they have my go to recorded things that I love. But when there is an opportunity for us to like, be together, right and interact like there's so much value in that, even if it's not 3d, right, even if it's not, but what are you going back into the studio? Was it just a big? I mean, there's all the masks and all the regulations. But was it a big sigh of relief? Did anything stand out to you, as you transitioned back to in person.
Erica Chang 30:17
It just made me so grateful that there are students in the room, right. And they wanted to move their bodies as much as I wanted to move mine, that they were there for yoga, right? And that's so moving. Because it also reminds me why I go back to the mat as well. Like why practice is for the opportunity to find space and movement.
Lisa Danylchuk 30:40
Is there does the word transformation resonate for you when you think about yoga?
Erica Chang 30:45
It does. So I'm currently taking the yoga training with a teacher in Seattle. And her question, when we first started the training was, how did yoga transform your life? And like, you know, if I didn't do yoga, I wouldn't have I would not know, the community that I know. I would not have made so many connections or friends, I would not be. So in tuned with my body, I would not know what it's like to be grounded. So I think I did mention that. I'm very type A, and I'm aware of it. Being able to take time, and listen, has taught me a lot, not only about myself, but how I approach things.
Lisa Danylchuk 31:26
And is there any transformation you've seen or heard about from students and as sometimes as teachers were facilitating, we don't get the whole story. Sometimes in those, you know, other settings, like working with you working in juvenile halls or programs, we get a little more of a window in. But have you seen anyone who's you know, been through something powerful through their yoga practice?
Erica Chang 31:50
Yeah, I think, you know, it's sometimes it's a little things like someone can get an arm balance, and they're like, Oh, that's great. I'm like, Yeah, that's awesome, right? Like, I've seen that you've worked hard. But I also have seen folks like, take a longer Shavasana, like I mentioned, and how powerful that can be. I've also seen folks who have worked through an injury, right? Like, I like to teach a lot of hip openers, and I like to teach a lot of balancing postures. So to watch someone being able to balance longer than they have done before is really powerful. And for them to tell me at the end of class, like, Hey, I was not able to do that months ago. And I would say, like, oh, I didn't know that. And they'll tell me about things like that have happened to them. Like, that's really awesome.
Lisa Danylchuk 32:38
It's that, you know, a lot of times it's like a little microcosm, right, your yoga practice and the things you bring, and repeating things in this comes from yoga philosophy, too, but repeating things with intention, but also with a little bit of surrender, right? Like, I'm gonna show up, and I'm gonna keep doing this. And I don't necessarily have this goal, I'm balancing on one leg and tree for 30 seconds or three minutes, like, but over time, we just, you know, our bodies, our minds, our brains, everything just adapts and develops habits. And then next thing, you know, something that felt really overwhelming or felt impossible. Feels kind of mundane, right? Like, I've definitely been in classes where even teaching tree for three minutes, people are like, Oh, but it's tree, it's tree pose. We do it all the time. You know, you started to like, in the thing, I there's a lot of communities I've been involved with that have this. But the thing that I appreciate and can be a challenge about yoga, in terms of the physical postures and Asana, and in terms of breath work, is there's always something there's always something more, right. There's always something more challenging or a little bit crazier. And it does get to the point, I think, with Asana, where we have to learn from the generations of teachers who have said, Oh, actually, this shape isn't good for your body, like this. This is contortion level, that's really not good for most bodies. Like there are those things, I think in terms of the sacroiliac joint and our cervical spine and things that we've sort of learned, you know, through pretty serious practitioners and teachers getting injured, and then figuring it out. And then they pass it on, like Actually, let's do this a little differently. But there is always another level of challenge and that can be such a gift because, you know, if you plateau or if you feel like you're getting bored while Here, try this, try something new. try closing your eyes and try lifting one hand or whatever, there's always something else. But it can also I think, for someone who is maybe type A or very accomplishment oriented, it can be frustrating, right? Because you never check the box. You're never like done. It's such a lesson in and of itself. Right.
Erica Chang 34:55
I also think it's been able to appreciate that it's a journey right? Like we don't have to get to the destination and being able to savor each moment and each pose until the end.
Lisa Danylchuk 35:06
And there's that microcosm again, there's that lesson of process, right? So it's like authenticity over perfection, progress process over result. But there is a little bit and I appreciate this about yoga philosophy, there is a little bit of like holding an intention or holding a vision or having a direction, right, but not like clinging to it so tightly that our self-worth and our, you know, sense of being okay is entwined in it.
Erica Chang 35:40
So, I used to be able, I used to love practicing every day. When it's summer, especially in the Pacific Northwest, I'm outdoors all the time. So I probably make it to my mat, to do three times a week, and it's not an hour-long class. It's just what feels best for my body. And I'm also okay with that, right? Like, I think before I be going to classes pretty regularly. And now I'm just doing a home practice and being able to find poses that really resonate for me and my body. Right, like, and that's also teaching myself like where I need to be at the moment.
Lisa Danylchuk 36:22
I hear this from so many teachers, I feel like there's this trajectory, I've seen a common theme where you know, people get into yoga. They feel a lot of benefit. They get really interested, keep coming back, take a lot of classes, start ticking workshops, take teacher training, that whole journey we just outlined earlier, finish teacher training, whether or not they intended to start teaching, right, somewhere, somehow. And then I see people, I don't know if this happened to you, at any point, maybe when you were talking about you know, having some having to let something go and letting go of the jobs in the juvenile detention center. But at a certain point, I feel like people are so enthused and excited about yoga, and giving it everywhere, that then they're not actually feeding themselves with the practice anymore. Like their whole life becomes yoga. And then there's like, I don't know, their own practice gets squeezed out of the margins. Did that ever happen to you?
Erica Chang 37:17
Oh, for sure. It happens all the time. I am also a person who's like, I have other interests, right? Like, there are other things I want to fill my life with. But I did think about that like I do think about it pretty regularly. Like if I were not like if I wasn't teaching, what would I make space and time for? And do I want to do that? And how much of yoga is encompassing my life? And do I really enjoy it? Right? So finding that balance as well.
Lisa Danylchuk 37:49
And that comes back to what you were talking about earlier in terms of having fun as a teacher, right, because you're doing it out of this obligation and or just rote habit, it sort of starts to feel stale. But if you're doing it out of passion or out of interest, or you're having fun with it, then that's a really different flavor. And the last thing I wanted to track with that journey is it gets squeezed out. But then I also think when you learn about yoga philosophy, everything starts to feel like yoga, you're like making a decision, you're communicating in a relationship, you're going for a run, you're taking a rest and like, even if it's not on a yoga mat, or it's not okay, this is my sequence time, or this is my plenty on my time it starts to sort of blend and bleed into everything. And then I find exactly what you just described, which is it really becomes this practice of what do I need right now? How is this going to serve me today? Once you have, you know, and I think about as I was kind of coming up in the yoga world and in Santa Monica in like the late 90s. There were a lot of people practicing Ashtanga Yoga really seriously, I anger yoga really seriously, you know, people could be doing like three hours a day, Ashtanga is doing they're like, primary, secondary, however many series every day, except on full moons, maybe new moons too. And there was just that intensity about it, where it's like, if you're a yogi, you're like, every day on the mat grinding. And I remember for myself when my practice became a little more like, what do I need right now? And this is what I need right now. struggling a little bit with that, like, Isn't it supposed to look this way or that way? And then really looking back and going, Okay. These are the teachers I learned from, you know, like the founders of Yoga works were, you know, really steeped in Ashtanga and there were a lot of leaders in Yoga works really steeped in a younger Vini yoga as well. And then I thought, okay, that's them. And then they're teachers who created the sequence or, you know, one generation above that. And then wait, what's before that, like Clemmy trace back. In the world of yoga to what about that those what? Okay, so now I'm tracing back. Okay, like Mati And Chuck to you know, their Ashtanga teacher to Krishna Macharia was the teacher of all these other big teachers. Well, who taught Krishnamacharya? And what about before that, like, let's really look back yoga is this tradition that's very well steeped in, in the culture in the country of India, we, you know, pay homage to that we respect that we want to honor that. And so why don't we mentally stop with I have to be doing primary series or I have to, you know, if it works for you, great. But in my mind, I was like, oh, you know, there was a moment of sort of reckoning with that, like, it doesn't have to look this way that like, during my early yoga development, I saw as a model, it doesn't have to fit into that for it to be right in a certain way, right, or for me to be doing the practice the way I should be. So it was really interesting to see and hear so many teachers have this similar trajectory. And I think, specifically in a trauma-informed way. And when you're factoring in and focusing on mental and emotional health, and nervous system health, and all these things, where we talk about more these days, it makes so much sense to look to all the tools you've learned, like you couldn't spend all day doing every yoga practice, you've learned at this point, you've you've learned so much stuff, that it's like a lifetime of tools. And then every day going into that tool bag and going oh, facedown Shavasana, which has been one of my favorites for a while. Face down Shavasana. Oh, you know, some balancing some, even breathing some longer exhales some, like just pulling those things. And so when I think of and when I work with people who are recovering from trauma and using yoga, it's very much that toolbag effect. So it kind of sounds like that's where you are now of what are my, what do we need right now. And let me just bring that on my mat. And remember that I'm a whole person and have a lot of other interests, too.
Erica Chang 42:00
Yeah. And I also think, I think part of the reason why I feel this way, and like this is a feeling that sometimes pops in and out is, you know, how yoga is presented in today's society, right? Like, are there folks that look like me? Are there folks with bigger bodies or other health, health ailments? or disabilities? Are they being offered a space? And I think about that, when folks show up to my class, like, you know, I would love to work with a wide variety of folks. Are those the folks that come to yoga, right? And if not, like, what are ways that I can create that space.
Lisa Danylchuk 42:39
And I love that you're doing that and that more and more teachers are consciously bringing that in, I think about some of the spaces I was in early on that there was this sort of background emphasis on and these are kind of scary words like, purity, or like, you know, you there was like, there was like, you know, you can get all the toxins out, right? If you just become vegan and juice every day, and like, when you start getting into diet, you start getting into lifestyle. And, you know, there are some things in the philosophy of yoga where we can really reflect but there were, there were some, some cultures that were starting to feel prescriptive and like, well, if you're not these things, and if this isn't the lifestyle that works for you, well, then you're not allowed here. And if you don't look the way the teacher does, well, that's because of you. That's because of your impure choices, or whatever. Right, like, and it's not always said, but it's a subtext. And I think it's a dangerous one. Because A, we don't know what everyone's coming with physically, mentally, emotionally, you know, yoga teachers, we're not doctors, we don't, we don't know a lot all of us, like, we know some things. And there's a lot we don't know. But it gets dangerous, right? It gets to this, like, in that sort of pursuit of some weirdly defined form of perfection and folds all into, you know, what we see in the media and our social structure structures in the world and power structures and all of that. And so, does it feel like there's a lot of people around you who are intentionally going, okay, how can we put that to rest? How can we bring up this sense of inclusivity and acceptance and honoring and respecting our bodies and giving them what they need? If I feel like there's a shift in that way, would you say so?
Erica Chang 44:30
there's a shift, and
Erica Chang 44:32
There's a shift, and those are the folks that I gravitate towards, right. Like when I see things on social media about like, oh if you do this yoga posture, you can lose a certain amount of weight. And like, you know, I'm not really interested in that. I'm interested in know, what feels good, right? And I think about why put myself in spaces like are there folks that feel comfortable being in these spaces, right? And if not, why is that?
Lisa Danylchuk 44:59
And that's it a really good question to ask. And it makes me think back to the work you're doing with the Attorney General of let's think about how we can make this accessible, not just say everyone's invited a, what might prevent someone or what might be challenging for someone, in this circumstance are with this identity to access what we're offering? And can we cross that bridge? So so that they don't so that it's not a barrier on their end? Right? So that they don't have to try to figure that out. But you're actively figuring it out. So are there places you want to bring yoga moving forward?
Erica Chang 45:39
Yeah, so I was co-owner of a yoga company called Yoga Wild. So we would teach classes outdoors and in museums, and getting folks from all over Tacoma to join there was a sliding scale. And people felt really included, right, because we would not only promote things that were happening in the city, but also volunteer at litter pickups at beach cleanups, things like that, and letting folks know what's happening. Sometimes folks, you know, they're interested or if they find out things at the last moment, but being a being socially aware on what's happening, and how we can take care of our environment, so we can take care of ourselves, I think I would be very interested in bringing yoga into like teen shelters. That's something that I'm interested in because I am doing a lot of outreach to find out where youth are going in the state of Washington. So being able to provide youth with a tool like yoga be really helpful and really inspiring for me
Lisa Danylchuk 46:43
Yes, speak to my heart. I wish I could like watch or listen to this podcast, you know, 15 or 10. However, many years ago, it was, I be like of my God Erica. I love it. The trajectories is very inspiring. And there's a lot of like interweaving overlap that I don't think either of us were aware of when I was teaching at Yoga Works. And you're coming there as a student. So yeah, it's really beautiful to hear and see. So we got to start to wrap up. And I'm just curious when you think about, you know, obviously, there's been thing after thing in the world, and the last few years have been excessively challenging. When you think of, you know, someone who might be struggling right now, what would you say to them? You know, it could be sort of a yoga invitation, or it could just be general, general sort of insight or, or advice, what comes to mind.
Erica Chang 47:37
So someone gave me this advice recently, and I've taken it to heart is just listen to your breath and listen to your body. And what is that telling you? And is your heart telling you the same thing?
Lisa Danylchuk 47:49
We can get really into, you know, in yoga, we call them varieties like the turnings and the turnings of our mind. And so when I hear you describe that, I have that whole feeling of the moments where we go into our heart, go into our bodies, connect with breath, kind of let that chatter simmer down. And there's some other wisdom there, right? There's some answer, and it might even just be like, I'm tired. I need right. It could be as simple as that. Now, I would say like 90% of the time are all nice down Shavasana right now. But taking that moment to attune, I think is really powerful. And, and sometimes I've noticed with the pandemic that we feel frozen or exhausted or tired, and, and we absolutely do need rest. But I think we also need engagement, we also need those moments of connection. Because I've found you know, I'm so tired. I only listen to my body, I'm tired. And then Oh, but I get to see this person and like a whole energy comes. That's so fascinating. So but just stopping and, and listening, I kind of take away from what you're sharing. And one more question I have for you what gives you hope these days?
Erica Chang 49:17
That's very hard question. I think there's so much happening in the news. What gives me hope is that I think self-sabotage is a very real thing. How can you think outside of that, right? And that goes back to like, not only listen to your thoughts, but listen to what your heart is saying. Right? Like, does your thoughts align with your feelings? And if so, why is that if there's a disconnect, why is that? I think that gives me hope being able to trust myself every step or with everything I do, right? Like being able to say like, okay, this is good for me.
Lisa Danylchuk 49:50
That's very empowering, right? To shift from all the out there or the sabotage to back to yourself and back to your choice. So how can people connect with you? How can people take your classes if they're in the area? Where do Where do people find you?
Erica Chang 50:06
Yeah, so you can find me on social media. It's Erica Chang and underscore you could also find me on Facebook. I currently teach at a local climbing gym in Tacoma, so you can find me teaching there and Mondays and Wednesdays, I'm teaching at a yoga retreat in Baja, Mexico in September. I did that last summer. So they asked me to do it again. So I'm super excited. And then I'm also teaching classes at the Tacoma Art Museum once a month. So that is also happening as well.
Lisa Danylchuk 50:38
Amazing. Amazing. And do you have a website?
Erica Chang 50:41
I do not. But folks can always email me or follow me on social media.
Lisa Danylchuk 50:47
Okay, so social media is best place to go. All right, everybody. Erica Chang, thank you so much for being here. And I just want to I just wish we could go back to the yoga room in San Francisco and play some Outkast right now and just do a little flow for old time sake.
Erica Chang 51:02
Ye ah, totally. It was so much fun. Thank you.
Lisa Danylchuk 51:08
Thanks so much for listening. My hope is that you walk away from these episodes feeling supported, and like you have a place to come to find the hope and inspiration you need to take your next small step forward. For more information and resources, please visit how we can heal.com There you'll find tons of helpful resources and the full transcript of each show. Thanks so much for your messages, feedback and ideas about the podcast. I love hearing from you and I so appreciate your support. There are lots of ways you can support the show and I'm grateful for every little bit of love you share. If you love the show, please leave us a review on Apple, Spotify, audible or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also subscribe on YouTube to get updates every week. You can always visit howwecanheal.com/podcast to share your thoughts and ideas. I'd love hearing from you. So keep your comments coming. If you'd like to stay connected in between episodes, you can also text me text the word heal to 888-858-0811. That's 888-858-0811. I went for the number with a lot of eights in it. I'll send you some inspiration and support a few times a month and you can text me back there too. Before we wrap up, I want to be clear that this podcast isn't offering any prescriptions. It's not advice or any kind of diagnosis. Your decisions are in your hands. And we encourage you to consult with any relevant health care professionals you may need to support you through your unique path of healing your unique
Lisa Danylchuk 52:42
I'd also like to send thanks to our guests today to Christine O'Donnell and Celine Baumgartner of Bright Sighted podcasting, and to everyone who helps support this podcast directly and indirectly. Alex, thanks for taking the dogs out while I record. Lastly, I'd love to give a shout-out to my big brother Matt, who passed away in 2002. He wrote this music and it makes my heart so happy to share it with you now.
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